Who from UW-FL went to Tallahassee

[neckringer]

I have someone that wants to know if someone from from United Waterfowlers was wanting to have hunting cut down to 2 weeks in Florida because this is the way it is up north.

The person who is asking me no longer lives in this State and heard it second hand that someone from our group was requesting that the hunting seasons be shortened. He may be wrong.
I would hope so!

Does anyone know anything about this?

[duckmanJR]

Newton Cook went to tally....

A two week season?? You're joking...UW-F ASKING for a shortened season...... I think your friend has gotten bad info....

[neckringer]

yes, I sure hope so.
We do not want to make a bad impression on the folk im talkin about. Just need to know what was sid if anything so I can clear it up. Im sure it was nothing!
However, I do not want rumors being spread about our organization and want to clear it up.
thanks

[N. Cook]

If anyone took the time to read the YAHOO message I sent before the meeting with a complete copy of the proposal they would know the facts....quite frankly, if you did not read the YAHOO message and did not take the chance to comment I have little sympathy for any complaints....

I have sent the complete copy again to both Jack Moeller and Ringneck and I hope they will see the need to make a radical change in the way PUBLIC LAND....REPEAT PUBLIC LAND....is managed for hunting in Florida. UW-F has a basic position of opening up opportunities for the regular public hunter to hunt, especially on land they pay taxes for. The current system manages the PEOPLE..... we believe the system should concentrate on managing the RESOURCE. Most states do not have quota hunts or special quota hunts or any major restriction on the public hunting on public lands....with nothing other than perhaps a low cost permit that opens all public land to the hunter in the entire state......remember ALL STATES ARE NORTH OF FL!!!!...not neccesarily "northern". If you are going to address the fact that hunting license sales have dropped from 250000 to 150000 in FL. while the population has doubled placing hunting in jeopardy for all of us, you must make it easy for another 100000 plus hunters to go hunting. Nothing will happen on private land to make this happen....therefore A SYSTEM MUST BE PUT IN PLACE THAT WILL ATTRACT 100000 MORE HUNTERS to public land. This will be a almost complete opening of all public lands to hunting, including the current WMAs, and with this number of hunters in the field TO PROTECT THE RESOURCE there will need to be shorter seasons and a limit on individual hunter's harvest. We do not know what those seasons or limits will be, they should be set on a scientific basis by the FWC, but other states use tag systems and seasons that are measured in weeks not months. The current system with a very small number of "drawned permits" for a small number of lucky (or those who gamed the system) hunters or "special quota" where money rules will just continue the slide to elitism.....and sooner or later to doom. Any better ideas are welcomed! Newton

[uncle D]

Newton,

Mind if I chime in? At last years "Stakeholder's" meeting and w/ subsequent letters, UW stated that there needed to be a positive promotion of hunting.

I agree that the resource should be managed instead of the people be managed, to an extent.

There still needs to be some control or there will be serious issues. Not all folks w/ firearms are responsible hunters even if they have a license.

I would like to see UW work in close relationship w/ FWC and promote waterfowling.

What about the waterfowl event like last years Bass Pro "Waterfowl and Dogdays"?

Great vehicle to get the word out!

Duke

[N. Cook]

I agree Duke, but to participate in the most important ever study and planning meetings for the future of hunting in FL. UW-F was invited as a full participant.....we do intend to stress waterfowing issues. Currently, a lot of public owned land is off limits to waterfowlers because it is off limits to everyone.....if we get the land (and wetlands as most public land in FL. is) open we as waterfowlers will reap the benefits. Our proposal is simple....ALL PUBLIC LANDS SHOULD BE OPEN TO WATERFOWLING DURING THE ENTIRE STATE SEASON. The only exceptions would be the days of quota hunts on WMAs. WMAs would be open for waterfowling during season even if closed to all other hunting.

On the UW-F projects issue....These projects are the responsibility of the local Regionals. Any project can be presented to the Board for approval and one such as the seminar at BPS in Orlando last year certainly would be a great one to do. These projects take a lot of work and the Regionals are closer to the situation and to those members who would volunteer to make the project a success.

We promise our members that UW-F will be their VOICE at the many public meetings held by FWC, watermanagement districts, refuges,etc.....we still do not make them all as volunteer time is always limited, especially during week days......but we must concentrate volunteer time on that promise....anything else someone wants to do and has time for that promotes waterfowling or is just a fun event is certainly supported by me.

[N. Cook]

Regarding the slob "hunter" issue......one of the points made at the recent meeting by UW-F was that if the FWC officers were in the field looking for RESOURCE violators and not standing around PEOPLE check stations, enforcement would be much better!!!!!

[neckringer]

If you take the two states that touch florida that are "north of here"

georgia for example. Archery sept 11-oct 8 muzzle loader oct 9-oct 15 gun oct 16- jan9 you are allowed 2 bucks one buck must have 4 points on one side and 10 does.

Alabama- not sure what there season dates are but the have the most liberal of any state and they are allowed a deer a day.
Of course you can not compare these deer herds with florida anyhow.

i agree that there are many changes that an be made. This letter had some good ideas in it and would support its cause.
I have talked to many of the states biologists when they had the antler restrictions meetings and they are going to tell yall the same thing they told me.

Florida aint ohio, florida aint georgia or alabama or kentucky or illinois or any other state.
Florida is Florida the home of sandy soil and a poor quality deer herd, and lots of outlaws with the outlaw mentality.
I believe that historically this is why many people moved to Florida was to out run the law from other states. They came and nesstled down in the swamps where there was no law. This breed and mentality is still thriving today. Heck look at the buck limit for private land 2 a day. I was supprised at how many people actually did not want this to change.

The people that wil be easy to back this will be your transplanted yankees that remember how the seasons where hwere they grew up.
Your crackers aint going to take it lightly wich will then resort to more poaching wich by the way is another sothern tradition as is runnin from the game warden.

[N. Cook]

Thanks for a great reply......Neckringer.......You are riight about the local boys being a problem.....but a lot of that is on private land.....if the FWC guys are on the ball as time goes by the situation will improve....nobody has seen outlawing like I have in our old camp in south ARkansas below the White River Refuge.....literally hundreds of deer, even some bear, spotlited or shot out of trucks, sometimes just for the **** of it. One gamewarden was killed just for crossing over to the "wrong" side of the White River. But today it is a lot better according to those who still go there.....time and generations change.

I also agree the RESORCE (deer herd, turkeys etc.) is very different in FL. That is why it is crucial for the mind set to change at the FWC. The traditions of leases and private lands will be almost impossible for the FWC to change.....but they can do a much better job on the hundreds of thousands of acres of public land. The poor land of Fl. is not that different from the sandy soil of S. Carolina and at least that state's level of game should be possible. The soil has a lot to do with the size of antlers....but unfortunately, the important RESOURCE, for the public hunter is numbers....better 50,000 public hunters kill "a deer" (any deer) as part of a growing herd than 500 kill a trophy if we plan to have any hunting into the future. Most serious trophy hunters are already on a lease or go up north anyway.
Newton

[neckringer]

I agree. However, The biologists will telll you that most parts of florida can not sustain a liberal doe harvest and this is why you are not allowed to take them on many wma's.
Im not so sure about shortening the seasons however, I am for taking some does. (wich you would be drawn for a state wide doe tag then could take from any public land)
and i am for antler restrictions.

[Converted]

I'm in favor of antler restrictions and a tag system. I don't see the benefit of a shorter season if the goal is to get more hunters. The way to get more hunters is to get more hunter success. A tag system with a limit of say 4 deer per year on public land would be a good start.

Making rules because of the actions of outlaws is kinda silly isn't it. Outlaws are outlaws because they don't pay any attention to the rules. Make the rules to give the average Joe hunter the best chance of success with his boy and prosecute to law breakers.

We hear the same answer time and time again at the shows. When we ask folks do you hunt ducks? By far the most common answer is "I used to hunt before I moved here". Same goes for deer hunting. I gave up deer hunting after trying it the first year I moved to Florida (1986). I grew up in PA where the first and second day of buck season and the first day of Doe season are school holidays. Needless to say, Florida hunting is a different experience. I took up salt water fishing and loved it so much I didn't miss the hunting. Then my boy turned 10 years old and I decided I owed him the same gift my dad gave to me. He needed to be out in the woods. I went out on a duck hunt with my neighbor and found that you actually can pull the trigger with great regularity here in Florida after all. I was CONVERTED:D

Now we put in for all the quota hunts but I can tell you hunting for deer on public ground in south Florida is no cake walk. I finally have the best chance so far with a muzzleloader permit to Dupuis. I hope that walkin' Wally that screwed up my last good chance at the Kissimmee PUA didn't pull his tag:mad:

Bottom line is if you want more hunters you need more hunter success. The less than diehard hunters are not going to go to all the trouble it takes to hunt here in Florida if they are lucky to see a deer once a season.

[neckringer]

tell me what you guys think about this "my buddys thoughts"

Here is what will happen if you take off the quotas.
1. it will not increase the number of hunters in the state
2. it will drive out those who want to hunt safely, this is because:
a. people do not want to hunt where there are crowds
b. people want to have easy access to where they hunt
c. people want to see game, some want big horns some want meat
1. in TX this is very evident: I met with two men today to see a lease, the lease cost $3,800 a year for cull bucks and does; if you take trophy bucks it is $25,000 a year and then you only have 6,000 acres to use. In Fl right now you can get a lease on the Lykes for $7,800 a year and there are three openings. All this is way to high for most working people but then you will pay for what you want.
d. there will be less game in one year on a given unit of land when too many folks show up-- over harvest.
3. the quota system is set up with an expected % of people as no shows. We went through all this when we established the quota system. We made sure we evaluated all the data on the game survey counts, the legal harvest counts (we cannot address the illegal harvest in this discussion but it plays into the system at some point), and the shows and no shows. We did all this because we wanted the most numbers of people to be able to use the land the longest time possible with the best opportunity to get game and to see game without harming the core population of wildlife.
4. the number one complaint I hear about public land is the sloop hunter who ruins it for all others; example while hunting a black powder hunt in Citrus WMA with permits I had scouted the area and knew where a big buck was working a line of rubs. Opening morning, again this was permitted hunt, I was on place and five minutes before good hunting time a person runs up and starts to climb a tree with his stand within easy sight of me. He left about 30 minutes later and never saw me. I got down and found a stump hole, fox hole, to spend the rest of the morning hunting. Another real life example. The first black powder hunt we had in FL was in the Everglades Region. Rays, Holes, MudCanal, and Browns all opened on the same day. The week leading up to the hunt we had a lot of rain and all but Browns was flooded. That morning more than 2,000 hunters showed up at Browns to hunt. It was not a good scene. So permits were needed to manage people and the resources. Another example of people management is resource management. In the Big Cypress we had too many deer in the late 1970s. They were starving and dying. The GFC had a two day doe hunt. This was before any of the area was even public. There was not Fakahatchee Strand, no Picayune State Forest, no Big Cypress National Preserve just open land. Well, every person who hunted in FL went to the Collier County and shot every thing that was brown and white in two days.

What needs to be done, in my opinion is, to have a way to make sure the permits that are issued are used. And those who get them if their permit is not used then they cannot get one the next year for that season or unit of land.

If there is such a shortage of hunting lands in Fl. why is are there 1,500 to 2,000 permits not claimed for use in the Big Cypress. Right, the Stairstep, Deep Lake, Loop Road and Corn Dance all have unclaimed permits. The reason is access. This is the problem with most public lands. The access has continued to get more and more difficult as agencies are encourage to move to this idea of restoring FL to look like it did before Columbus arrived.

I have Ohio. It is not fun. You have one week and everyone goes crazy for that week. This is not a good experience. Oh sure you see deer. Why would you not--everyone is out running around the woods trying to get their deer? This is not the hunting experience I or most like. It is a run and gun activity. In Ohio you also do not have much public land. Most land is either leased or neighbor allowing others to use their property. This too leads to conflicts. We had use of a number of small farms. We drove 70 miles to one for a morning hunt. We got there and another friend of the farmer was already set up to hunt that farm. We left for another place about 40 miles away. This is not the type of hunting most Floridians want.

On special op hunts. There is a good number of folks who like them and an equal number who do not like them. Those who do not see these acres as places that could help relieve hunting pressure on the public lands nearby and thus speed out the pressure.

The truth is as long as people continue to move to FL the use of permits will be needed. There will also have to reduced seasons to satisfy the desires of many others who will want to hunt, there will be reduced seasons to allow for those who do not want to hunt but want to see wildlife, there will be changes in types of weapons uses -- this will move from rifle to shotgun to black powder to archery. This movement has already started on some leases in central FL. They no longer, by club choice, all rifles. They do not want some stray bullet hitting a house or the implication that this happened so they are black powder or archery only. This will have to happen on a lot of public lands just to allow public hunting.

Maybe we should charge more money for the permits that are popular. I suspect there are few places that people really want to hunt so they are willing to invest $1000 hoping to get few permits or to keep others out of "their" WMA. These units might should have a $500 dollar bill cost for a permit. Or maybe we should allow the FWC to charge for use of public land like they do for a Recreation Use Permit on private land they lease. This Recreation Use Permit might solve most of these social issues, make the FWC some money, allow the public who wants to pay for exculisive use of the land the opportunity to do so. Maybe we should charge for the hunt itself on these very popular units. Getting the permit to hunt is step one, when you show up or before you must pay $500 to go to the hunt. However, all this price stuff will price the average man out if he has a family that hunts. But you pay for what you want. I think many are getting a good deal when they can hunt public lands for as little as $75 a year and people know it.

In the end if we do not provide a good experience that folks feel safe in, can camp in a good location, can have reasonable access (like you said in the email the other 1.5 hour hike is too far to hike to archery hunt in the swamps of south Fl - OK Slough WMA- so you will not go. But if you could drive your swamp buggy, atv, or street legal to within 30 min. you would. The lose of reasonable access and assurance of being able to hunt is first two reasons why people leave hunting in FL.

[Converted]

I don't have a problem with Florida's quota system and I think it is more fair than ever with the preference drawing. As much as we all long for the days of our youth where you just went out in the woods and hunted, those days are gone forever. Just as a particular piece of property will sustain a certain number of deer, it will sustain a certain number of hunters.

I disagree about paying for the more popular areas. We've got that now, it's the special Opportunity hunt. As I mentioned, I drew a Dupuis muzzleloader permit. If that was a $500.00 permit for me and another $500.00 for the boy there is no way I'd pay. If I want to drop a grand on a hunt I'll head up north and be almost assured of getting a nice deer or two.

I also disagree that the hunts in the northeast are not fun. I guess it comes down to tradition like anything else. The week or two at the "deer camp" with old friends on old lands is hard to beat. Unfortunately the same encroachment of civilization into the wild lands is happening back there as well.

How long will it be before we all have to go to the "hunt clubs" like the europeans? I will do everything I can to delay that day as long as possible.

[Randy Clark]

quotas really stink if you dont get picked like last year nothing at all. But this year Quotas are okay because i got rock springs run archery and bull creek for my sons and i. last year callins at tm goodwin where a real pain and very time consuming,but i got to go hunting and take my two sons toshoot some ducks. i have lived here since 1960 and only started hunting after the navy. but quotas sometimes eliminates the masses from running themselves or their dogs by your stand.

[neckringer]

Im just posting these ideas and facts that my buddy and I are discussing they are interesting in the fact that they deal with public access in fl.
he is my reply to his e-mail

Jack, You will never again ever fill those south areas like stairsteps and such. There has been too much done to keep people out and the buggy and airboat days are dwindling down. With all the rules and regs people just dont want to do it anymore. You will also never get that many people walking into these areas because the out skrits will be getting hit too hard and the game will move and the average guy just cant take that kind of walking.
You mentioned that I said a 3 mile walk is too far at ok slough flor a archery hunt and that I would not have a pproblem if I could drive a street legal 4x4 or a buggy in there true. However, this spot that I am hunting that is a 1 1/2 mile in would not be as good if people were allowed to drive in. Then I would still have to go atleast a mile from where ever no one can drive.
The fact with orv's is they are too hard to regulate and there are too many bad apples. You have too many guys that get out of there stand at 8;00 just so they can go ride their buggy that took a year to build and they have a bunch of money wrapped up in. It is also too hard to keep 3 and 4 wheelers on the road.
If they had a good way to regulate it witch I cant think of one then it would be fine.
i do not mind the quota system. I know how to play it and the cold hard fact is that it just takes money as does anything else.

I think if you opened all hunting land there would be large floods of people into areas that are known to have a good deer herd then like you said there would be an over harvest the first year then it would become like the areas that people left.
There has been talk of adding triple N ranch to bull creek. this would ruin this property. This property now is one of the best palces in florida to harvest a trophy buck and you get to take a doe. Sure you wil not get drawn every year but that also goes back to how much money you want to put in.
I think there are some changes that could be made and would be for the better but I would really have to look at each property as an individual and how far it is from a populated area and think about the pressure it would receive. Which in the end you would still have a quota system.

[neckringer]

here is another reply of his you guys especially in the south that know where he is talking about should enjoy. He is the almighty swamp rat!

Dave
You think a lot like me.

The reason most people have left hunting in S. Fl is that access is just too hard.
You are right about the Big Cypress National Preserve and particularly the Stiarsteps. But, Like my life long hunting buddies said, there will be plenty of deer and big ones too because of these restrictions.

The entire issue of the ORVs, access, people's uses and expectations, and the management of units of land is to strike a balance that allows for the wildlife to be there, the habitat to remain, and enough use for continued political support for hunting and fishing. The hardest part of all this is make sure that across the entire landscape of a region of FL is that this balance is there. Some areas, i.e., NNN Ranch, with tighter harvest rules and reduced uses while others, like Bull Creek, with more lenient uses.

The next and probably the most difficult issue is enforcement of the rules not matter what they are. Without enough game wardens that know the areas and people the rules are always going to be harder to enforce. I always said if you really want to know the character of person take them hunting or fishing in the ocean. Then when they have the opportunity to do wrong they will or they will not. For example go camping deep in the BCNP and at night the hogs move in and are feeding around the camp. It is very easy and not likely anyone will be caught to shot one. A person with high character will not do this, and the reverse is true the other way. I would not want to be in business with someone that did this.

I do know in 1960 when we started going to the Cypress there was lots of game and few people, Then in the 1970s and 80s there were a lot of folks. We were hunting in the heart of places like East Hinson Strand and East Crossing Strand (look at a road map and you will see them in the curve of I-75 east of my camp). This was because the game was chased into these places by all the hunters and poachers. In 1981 we did not shot a deer. We hunted all over Bear Island and way south of Camp. South of camp we could not find a deer or hog track on a 5 hour buggy ride. We could not find one in the mud or the buggy trails or other places around ponds. But, by the late 1980s and on into the 1990s and 2000s we did not go to camp on a hunting trip that we came home without deer or hog. Frequently we had several of each. We also did not hunt as hard by the middle 1990s--getting old slows one down. Floks who hunt and know the Stairsteps are seeing herds of deer and bucks with big horns. I know on Copeland Prairie we saw to herds of bucks and all had big horns. Racks that could be seen from 400 yds without field glasses. But you had to work really hard to get there and have ice to cool the boned-out meat.

Any way if we do away with quota permits we will destroy the ability to manage the resources, the people and the land. I think there is some way to reduce the permit grabbing issue without doing away with transferable permits. The transfer of permits is key to getting folks to stay in hunting and to allow the most use of the lands we own. Permits allow us to adjust numbers of people and length of time to hunt a unit. I know I will not go on a three day hunt again. It does not give one time to learn where the deer are and there are too many other weather factors. All permited hunts should be at least a week, 5 or 7 days. This is suffcient to enjoy the woods, learn the game locations and have an enjoyable time. Most folks cannot stay in the woods, swamps for more than 5 days. I know I had folks go to my camp for 5 day hunts and by the 4th day they were having, what I call, real-city-withdrawl-problems. Most could not take more than 3 days of tent camping in the Cyperss. I would go for 5 to 7 days when turkey hunting.

[N. Cook]

I have a lot of the same feelings as all the above....but the challenge is to sell 100,000 more hunting licenses a year and put each and every one of that 100,000 in the field......we may not want to see such crowds, but they will be a neccesity if you want hunting to remain available to any but the most well to do and the most dedicated, willing to wait for a lucky draw every few years. The cost of running a state hunting program cannot be justified long term at today's license income, which will continue to drop if changes are not made.

Numbers in the field are much higher in other states, especially during deer gun seasons, but the crowding rapidly drops off as the days go by.....also, I did not mention muzzle loading and archery seasons.....but they would certainly be longer and before the gun season. Many serious hunters use these quieter times for the quality hunting. If you put another 100,000 hunters in the field, the only methods to controll harvest are days open and annual limits by tags. A balance can be determined as has been proven in many states that have massive numbers of hunters in the field and hundreds of thousands of deer killled, but maintain a growing herd. Florida may support more or less game due to the natural conditions....but there is a scientifically determinable set of regulations here just as elsewhere. Newton

[N. Cook]

In the copy of the UW-F FUTURE OF HUNTING IN FL. proposal it has been mentioned that the "two weeks....split season" suggested as just a bench mark could be interperated wrong.....the meaning is two, two week periods....total 4 weeks for gun deer and the same for spring turkey. Plus a two week fall turkey season.

Remember, these numbers are just used as an example, the FWC would use their science to determine the exact number of days and the limits. Hopefully the resource could withstand more days and higher limits, but that will be determined.

What is important is to get more hunters in the field on public land with a good chance of success......and little or no restrictions or red tape except the season dates and the tag limit.

[neckringer]

Hey Newton just figured out how to get license sales back up!

Take away the skeeters, the 85 degree weather the water and throw in some more game;) .

All kidding aside. There are some things that can be changed but I have bad feeling that once you sit down and start looking at everthing involved you may end up with what we have.

People have to realize a few things about special opportunity and quotas. Its a gamble.

the special opportunity hunts are supose to be once in a life time hunts for serious sportsman you will not get drawn every year or every other year.
However, The more money you put in the better your chances.
there is nothing wrong with this system.

Next your special and regular quotas. if you do not have a reject notice from the previous I would not put in for any hunts that draw under 80- people. Especially if it is a popular area.
If you want a hunt choose a second archery or second gun as your first choice and you will have better odds.
Remember that people with rejections are feeling special and they are going to choose all the really hard to get hunt. That was their choice. they picked hard to get hunts instead of hunts that are easier to get.
I have no sympathy for people that do this then complain about not having a place to hunt.

Choose hunts that are kind of hard to get as you first choice then move on to easier hunts where they allow more people.

Then do your scouting and work your butt off and go kill a deer, hog or turkey.

get ou on the road and learn some new areas Florida has a lot of public land with hunts that go late into december and january.

Huntin Florida aint easy. Not even the places that only draw 30 people and are loaded with game.

Best thing to do is work your butt of and out walk everyone. If you cant walk that far then you need to refer to the previous posts about access in florida.
Then when you are successful it feels dang good.

[Randy Clark]

shorter general gun hunt would not really bother me because honestly how many legal deer do you see towards the end of the season sure they are out there feeding at night or adjoining private land. maybe im wrong but it is this senario that made me want to start duck hunting in the first place usually even if it turns into a blue bird day at least you can look around enjoy the veiw and start fishing

[uncle D]

Just out of curiosity, why is a waterfowling group commenting of deer hunting?

Not trying to ruffle feathers, but UW should focus on waterfowling.

Like open all WMA's to migratory bird hunting throughout the season for each specie. Since birds are driven by various elements of nature, they are not predictable. This known, UW should push for the whole season open on WMAs provided they don't endanger or complicate other hunters.

We should push for more Natl. lands open to wingshooters.

More state lands open.

Push for better mangt of waterfowl areas.

Push for more waterfowl areas, etc.

I appreciate the effort of UW and its involvenment with the "glades" and STAs.

Co-Op w/ FWC, USFW, DU, Delta, etc. and promote duck hunting to youth and adults.

Just my 2 cents.

Duke

P.S. I would hope that UW holds waterfowling priority and any residual effects would be a positive to other hunters.

[neckringer]

For people who dont like hunters they aint going to care what you are hunting. Hunting is hunting easy as pie.
Are you for waterfowl hunting and no other type of hunting.

I thought one of our major goals is access. Getting places open to the public for more hunting opportunitys.

Also to promote hunting. So if some kid decides he would rather go squirrel hunting than duck hunting are you going to tell him no because you are a member of a watrefowl group.


Yes UW-fl main concern is duck hunitng and it is a waterfowling group whom also hunt other game anmials. These same people are also interested in getting public land open to........

HUNTING

[Larry]

I see that Diane E. is still on the Org Chart. Where is Frank M? http://myfwc.com/planning/ReOrg/.

[Converted]

Originally posted by uncle D
Just out of curiosity, why is a waterfowling group commenting of deer hunting?...

I think the focus of the conference is titled "The Future of Hunting in Florida" The last data I saw had waterfowlers at 1.8% of the population. People that call themselves hunters was at about 22% of the population. Both groups are clear minorities but we duck hunters are almost off the pie chart all together. If we want hunting to continue in the state we must address the major problems. Hunting license sales didn't go from 250,000 to 150,000 over the past 10 years because of fewer duck hunters. I think the waterfowl stamps have stayed fairly steady at around 20,000.

We can and do promote waterfowling but that will not solve or even put much of a dent in the problem the conference is trying to address.

[N. Cook]

You are correct Duke that we address duck hunting first and the suggestions we gave out at the meeting first listed ideas for waterfowling, including having all public lands open during the entire duck season with very few exceptions.

However, we were invited to be on the committee for total input not limited to duck hunting. UW-F's objectives are to make hunting less restrictive and more attractive to those who have stopped or go to other states because of Florida's red tape and complicated rules, especially on public land. None of us relish crowding, but we must have a sustainable number of "interested parties" (hunters) or the anti's are sure to win in time.

[Randy Clark]

i hope this does not become a we they issue because like it was pointed out (we) are all hunters in this battle for rights

[Converted]

I'll toss out another idea. How about a youth deer/hog hunt on all the WMA's. They started a youth hunt the weekend before the season in Ohio last year. There was a good deal of grumbling among the diehard hunters but the kids did take about 5000 bucks that weekend. I'm sure many were hooked for life.

[Randy Clark]

there are youth hunts for deer and hog at camp blanding and andrews wma. my son and i have went to both and he has not been lucky enough to get a shot but the game we saw and the fun we have had keeps him bugging me every year to put in for it

[N. Cook]

"to put in for it".......the sure show stopper for many would be Florida hunters. If all the public land was open at the same time there would be plenty of room for just plain "walk ons" who decided to go hunting that same week for common species such as deer, turkey and hogs. If you have to "put in for it" you are managing people.... NOT THE RESOURCE.

The only time quotas should be neccessary is for naturally low population species as in the west for sheep and mountain goats, or here in FL., if we ever get one again, for bear hunting.

[Keith Yates]

The last 2 rule change years I have submitted requests to add youth hunts to a couple local(Central FL) WMA's. Both of them came back quickly saying that the committee was not in favor of adding these hunts for the kids. Needless to say if we want to provide more youth hunting opportunities for the kids we are gonna have to squeak louder.

[duckmanJR]

Keith...did they say WHY they were not in favor??

[DUCKWHACKER]

I wish they would make permits not transferable. This would stop the guy from buying half a dozen WMA stamps in his wifes and inlaws names then applying for multiple permits. Same goes for special opp hunts.

[Larry]

Herky Huffman is currently Vice Chairman of the FWC Commission. Maybe when he becomes Chairman, and with the new FWC staff, some changes can be made?

Don't give up!!!

[uncle D]

I support all hunters, but UW intent is to speak of waterfowling. I just hope our sights are still focused on that main issue.

WE, UW, have accomplished alot and I'm sure we'll win more battles.

I heard just the other day that UW can put another notch in their belt. The Oklawaha Farms property of the SJRWMD will allow duck hunting this coming season.

Phil Harper has the details and I hope he'll post up.

This issue UW fought for, went to several meetings and we were persistant. We can pat ourselves on the back.

Neckringer you are right, but let's not lose focus or spin wheels in other directions.

As for H. Huffman, from speaking w/ him as well as past UW pres. relationships w/ him, he seems that he'll be an ally.

Duke

P.S. If quotas are to be issued for waterfowl hunting, I feel that they should be transferable. The reason is that sometimes other guns are needed to move the birds around and I don't see the harm in letting a buddy stand in for the replacement.

[Randy Clark]

i agree with trying to limit the multiple quota purchaseing but if i really did get a quota fairly and could not go wouldn't it be nice for it not to go wasted.

[DUCKWHACKER]

For every permit given by a "sick" friend, theres probably 10 aquired by multiple WMA stamp purchases.