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Converted
07-13-2004, 09:06 AM
First of all the "Committee" was renamed "Workshop" to avoid confusion with the acronym. No telling how much staff time was involved with that decision... We are now offically the South Florida Water Management District, Water Resources Advisory Commission, Recreational Advisory Workshop.
SFWMD WRAC RAW for short:confused:
Don't you just love the government!

The meeting went very well and ran 1 hour long. Many projects throughout the district were discussed. Although the STA's are a main focus for duck hunters right now, I can assure you that there are large holdings of district lands that hold potential now or will in the future. many large reservoirs are in the planning stages and other lands that the district has purchased may offer other hunting opportunities. We all need to pay attention to the public meeting process for each of the individual projects. The CERP projects need to have recreation included before they are submitted to Congress for authorization. If not. the money will not be there. SFWMD projects also need to have recreation included in the original management plan. If not, we have to wait 5 years for a new management plan on any particular piece of property.

STA Hunting Status 2004/2005
This must be approved by the Governing Board but here is what is being considered:
STA5 will continue to have Sunday morning hunts. The Staff recommended that this be given permanant status rather than the temporary situation that exists now. That way we won't have to go before the board every year to ask, it will be automatic.

UW-F has made a proposal to allow an additional afternoon hunt on each sunday as well. Staff has not agreed but Rock Salt, with the US Dept. of Interior made a motion to have the RAW recommend to the WRAC who will report to the Governing Board to implement the UW-F position. Thank you Rock! This is not a done deal, we will need to lobby the WRAC and Board to get this!

STA 1W will have each Saturday of the season open in a manor similar to STA5. Again the possibility exists of morning and afternoon hunts. Also it looks like the number of hunters per hunt will be increased. Maybe as many as 40 vehicles (up from 25) with two hunters per.

STA 3/4 is new and staff will not release it for public access to the interior until the emerging vegitation is established. The estimate was 2 to 3 years from startup. 3/4 was started in October 2003 so it is possible it will be partially opened next (05/06) season.

STA 1E was annexed into the village of Wellington with little public fan fair. This apparently happened a couple months ago. I guess this is going to be a new hot topic for our involvement around the state. I will post an extensive position statement on another thread. April with Audubon made a motion to have the RAW draft a letter to the WRAC expressing concern over this practice. UW-F will make our position well known to the members!

STA 6 will not be hunted due to an agreement with FPL which has transmission lines across this site. We can look farther into this and see if any accomodation can be made remote from the power lines.

It was stated that STA 2 has no legal access route at this time but that more lands were going to be purchased that would allow access off US 27. Steve with FWC pointed out that when it was Brown's Farm there was access and that should still be in place. SFWMD Staff is looking into the matter and will report back at the next meeting.

Hunt reservations on all STA's that are open will be by Quota hunt permit rather than call-in. FWC is working on the procedure right now. There is a potential timing problem because the waterfowl seasons are so late getting set due to the Flyway reports. FWC is confident that they can work it out. Also the permits may be non-transferable. We'll report the details as soon as we learn more.

We were hoping for additional hunting days during the week but the Staff is opposed at this time. All of the STA's have construction projects on going to one degree or another right now. In the future, if we continue to earn the respect of the water managers, there is a good chance we will get some days during the week. This will be an ongoing battle but we have the momentium in our favor and things are looking very good for the years to come. One up coming project is to convert another cell of STA5 from cattails to hydrilla. This would double the "hot spot" for ducks.

The only negative statement for the entire evening as far as duck hunters are concerned was a complaint about shotgun shells litering the bank of STA-5. We all need to educate our members and the other hunters that use SFWMD properties that all LITER must be removed from the site or we may lose the access that we have been fighting so hard for. There will be bird watching tours, hikes, horseback riding and other activities on all of these sites. We cannot allow hunters to be the BAD GUYS by leaving spent cases laying on the ground or floating in the water. Please let everyone know that this is a big deal to the people we are dealing with.

Thanks for the good turnout by duck hunters! We had many UW-F and Delta guys in attendance. We were by far the best represented group of stake holders.

CAPT. CHRIS
07-13-2004, 03:20 PM
Great Job, David and all the rest you pitched in. I told Jeff Allen to let you know tjat I wouldn't be able to make it and finish up the grass-roots loose ends that I needed to take to the Glades County Commissioners' meeting this morning. We all owe even more to Lt. Rick Lyman FWC RET!!! His imput as to our loss of habitat on the Lake along with the thousands of acres SFWMD has with these STAs as a duck magnet was tantamount to getting this project to the next level. Instead of dying through lack of interest and hands out to big $s , we now got them to admit to the fact that they had allready voted 4-0 back in June to Form a meeting with the Couny attorney, County Manager< one of the Commissioners and myself to prepare the legal aspects of presenting this to the DEP.. The still want to hold this up for an RFP, but I don't care who gets the job. Your progress, last night will sure help get the birds moving around and if we have a little food for them back up here on the Lake

Randy Clark
07-15-2004, 07:59 PM
I dont know if i like the idea of quota hunt permits at least with call ins you still might get to hunt there during the season. the regular and special quota for regular hunting some times seems imposible to get and then you hear of the guy with the permit you wanted and he never used it.

uncle D
07-16-2004, 06:30 AM
I agree w/ Randy. The "quota hunt" could be bad.

What of a short season, what if a hunter is sick, can't transfer? What if I've got a little unexpected time off, I'm out of the hunt because I didn't apply in the Spring?

Please work something out other than write in spring quota applications.

Not the best solution!:rolleyes:

Duke

duckmanJR
07-16-2004, 04:38 PM
Randy / Duke ...... I have to disagree on the blanket statement that quota permits "are not the best solution" As a hunter who has attempted to get access to sta 5 *FOR TWO SEASONS* Yep, every time I was not able to get in....That's ALOT of wasted time on the phone my friend! I have to disagree in that I have 1 phone...I know people who got to hunt several times that had every secretary in their office calling in..... Is this fair and equitable?? I think not. At least with a quota.... all he names are "in the hat" together and it is at least probable that you will get to hunt at least once..... maybe more if your buddys get permits too.
Any "unfilled slots" should go to "walk ons" like at Goodwin/broadmoor
The phone call in system is full of problems.... not just the guy who can have the "secretarial pool" call in for them...and there were a bunch of those... but what about the working guy who can't sit on the phone for half an hour or more??
The call in works good for me at Goodwin..... We had a group ( The "A" team) who called in and we were in for almost every hunt....but I still feel it is not the most fair way of doing things..... and don't we all want "fair" treatment??
Maybe a "trip limit" ?? no more than X # of hunts per individual??? That would negate any "fancy footwork" of people getting everyone under the sun getting permits for him.
This way more people can enjoy what UW-F has worked so hard for......and understand why we must be "in the trenches" fighting for access to places like these.

Maybe it's pollyanna of me but I think that access now gained needs to be equitably distributed to the stakeholders.... My .02

uncle D
07-17-2004, 08:30 AM
My concerns are that if hunts issued by quota before season, the hunt success is unknown.

It is not like big game where a know population of game dictates the amount of hunters.

Ducks are migratory, so who knows if "they are in".

Also, if I had a "quota permit" and couldn't make the hunt, at least the permit should be transferable.

Would the system like Merritt Island be more applicable?

At least the hunts are drawn, via phone on three certian days in Oct., right before the season and the hunts are transferable.

One drawback at Merritt is that there are no walkins, but half the refuge is open to non permit hunters.

Please try to work out a soultion for this.

Just the whole "quota" thing sounds like it will become like the current quota application process or even worse, "special Op hunts". Ihope it doesn't go there.

Duke

duckmanJR
07-17-2004, 11:00 AM
Transferable permits are unworkable/unfair ..... So, Mr. X who has a bunch of relatives has all them put in for hunts...and then who winds up monopolizing the spot.....See where I'm coming from.
I think to be ultimately fair there has to be a limit of how many times you can hunt a certain area....or you will not get the access to the spots fairly because the system will be "worked". The permit process could be like MI with a call in system with one pick per day.
As far as not knowing if it will be a good spot or not...who knows till the day you go.... scout it out and make an educated guess. :)

duckmanJR
07-17-2004, 11:14 AM
depending on how many days are open on sta 5 and on sta 1 W ( it appears as though once a week each) maybe the solution is to allow a set # of trips per hunter for each area. So,....What do members feel would be a fair # of times to hunt an area??
Many members have the equipment to access the lakes and marshes but many others have to depend on areas that can be accessed with minimal equipment.

ironeyes
07-17-2004, 11:52 AM
How about something similiar to the system in place at MINWR? Since no system will ever be fair to everyone. Here's my shot at management:
1) Predesignated call in dates
2) Maximum two permits per person per call in day (one for each area, no person shall possess permits for both areas for the same hunt day)
3) Permits are non-transferable
4) All unclaimed permits will be filled by walk-ons
5) Any permit not presented by xx o'clock will be filled by a walk on.

novaalex
07-17-2004, 08:31 PM
DID THEY SAY WHEN THEY WOULD GET AROUND TO ESTABLISHING THE PERMITTING SYSTEM.

Randy Clark
07-18-2004, 04:56 PM
sure calling in wasted alot of time but we all know of people putting down hundreds of dollars to get a certain quota permit. At least as miserable as calling was i still felt that living in orlando i had a chance to experience something likle tm goodwin that i may not have gotten to do to no even getting a chance with the quota system if it was in place.To loose that area for the year so where forty or fifty individuals could get quoatas would truly be a shame atleast now alot more people have at least a chanceto get in even if it means taking wed morning of to sit on the phone listening to a busy signal and punching redial praying god let someone answer the phone. My two boys and i got to go three or four times last year and i grant you it took hours on the phone but at least we got to go and shoot some ducks. unlike the one chance of getting the quota and hoping maybe next year. call-ins are a pain but there are more chances through out the whole season for more people to enjoy the area.

duckmanJR
07-19-2004, 04:44 AM
Randy...You must not be familiar with the MI quota ststem...the permit is only good for either the day(wed) or the weekend....NOT the whole season. When a person calls in for their permit...you ask for a specific day and location...if it is already filled...you ask for a differant day or location till you get a spot.

N. Cook
07-19-2004, 09:29 PM
The proposed plan will require your license number and you will be required to show an ID matching the name on the license and the drawn permit. You will be given first, second...etc choices of dates for the ten days open during the season for the STA for the drawing. Your companion can be anyone. Your companion will not be eliminated from putting in an application on their own.

The reason for this scheme is to prevent "non hunter" applications by the elite who buy multiple licenses under different family or friends names for multiple applications....ok if they apply with grandma's name, but if drawn, grandma will have to be there properly licensed and with a duck stamp to hunt. We want a large number of different hunters to see how important the fight to get all the STAs and related areas open....hopefully some day without the need for permits and red tape!

We are hoping the WRAC and board will agree to more hunter pairs and an afternoon hunt which will multiply the opportunities to get on versus the previous set up. Possibly Sat on 5 with forty pairs twice a day.....Sun on 1w with 40 pairs twice a day.....This totals 320 hunters versus last years 50 per week....Also, walkins for open spots and replacement of hunters limiting out and leaving is in the proposal. We have also asked for a weekday afternnoon for "scouting" from the parking areas to allow first time hunters a chance to scope out the lay of the land in daylite.

This is the best we can hope for this year....and we may not get a thing!!!! but we do have some heavy lifters supporting the UW-F proposal due to some long term lobbying for almost two years.

We will need a good turn out at the WRAC meeting when the proposal comes up.....

You will know well in advance your hunt day and time and can plan for it versus the hit and miss telephone system.

duckmanJR
07-20-2004, 08:48 AM
This sounds infinately more fair than the telephone deal.... This way more different people will get to partake...:)

ironeyes
07-21-2004, 12:40 PM
I am not sure that I agree with the idea of 40 pairs of hunters twice a day, and I have never liked the idea of filling spots of hunters whom have already limited out. I have never been to the STA's so their size is unknown to me; but even at the size of TM Goodwin, pressure like that, all day, even if its only one day, will not be good for the hunting. These birds do have wings you know, and they will move if they get busted out like that. Even limited hunting pushes birds. Any one who has hunted Goodwin knows that even the best spots fall off quickly in the heavy pressure walk-in side. Filling spaces where hunters have limited out is ridiculous in theory and practice (personal opinion) it is completely contradictory to having "permitted hunters only" I am all for increased access but I think there are better ways to go about it without compromising the quality of the hunting.

Converted
07-21-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by ironeyes
...These birds do have wings you know, and they will move if they get busted out like that....

That is the whole idea Joey. These ducks are sitting there by the thousands. Look at the check station numbers. 5.5 birds per hunter all season long. We want the birds spread back out over the traditional south Florida wintering grounds. Even at 40 hunters twice a day, one day a week I sure there will be plenty of ducks left hanging around. We really need to get a day during the week opened up to dispurse the ducks properly.

N. Cook
07-21-2004, 02:21 PM
Hopefully, the next morning after the STA hunt each week will be better for all the other areas withing "flying" range.....The ducks will have a whole week to filter back into the STA and guarantee a full day of hunting again. We do need at least 4 days a week on all STAs, mornings only then would be ok, to keep ducks on the traditional marshes as well. Newton

novaalex
07-22-2004, 04:57 PM
Joey until you go to STA5 or 1 you have no idea the amount of birds. I was unable to attend when members of the Eight Street Gang met up with the A Team at Goodwin, but I can tell you that there is no comparison. I was very lucky last year by getting a permit over the phone, being given one by ATCJETS, and walking in. I can tell you that no matter what time of the day or season the birds were at STA5. To be honest with you I don't think that hunting twice a day once a week will do anything to the birds for a sustained period. Some of them will leave for a day or two days or a week but they will come back to the attractant(MONSTER HYDRILLA).

ironeyes
07-24-2004, 01:32 PM
You are right, without having been there I cannot judge anything accurately. I will have to submit to the judgement of the people that do know the area. But that not withstanding, I am still adamantly against the idea of filling spots after permitted hunters leave.
I guess everyone has there own view on everything.