Meeting on Merritt Island in Titusville

[Quackers]

I attended a preliminary meeting about issues at MI NWR today. Marc Epstein was trying to get some input from duck hunters. His main agenda is saving the grass beds in the Lagoon. As we all know, duck hunters do not have much of an effect on these.

The meeting is April 29th from 5:30 to 8:30 PM. Titusville library (321-861-0667) is located on Hopkins I believe.

This meeting will cover as many issues as the public wants to input. We need to be present to make sure our interests are protected.

Epstein is proposing making "travel lanes" to the impoundments on the east side of the lagoon. Poling would be required for boaters outside of these areas. This should be an interesting meeting. He had an aerial survey of boats during a 100 day period in 2002. (this might be why there wasn't any money for flyovers this year) The number of boats is staggering. The effect they are having on the grass beds is devastating. They need to do something.

[N. Cook]

Thanks Quackers for making the meeting...I had a frantic phone call from Duke at 2:15 pm that the directions you had been given were incorrect and we did not have a cell number to alert you....obviously you overcame that problem......UW-F has not taken a hard position on the issues regarding the access, except I do not know of any objection to using trails for access and requiring poling into the areas that need protection. As duck hunters, we always support QUITE areas with as little boat traffic as possible.....Unless there are objections, I believe we should go for reasonable motorized access by designated trails, with poling only in other areas. The key is "reasonable". You guys who hunt the area please chime in with your positions as we should have a consensus to take to the next meeting and should speak to our position at that time.

[uncle D]

Was there talk of a certian depth?

I'm w/ Newton on this, we must recognize the destruction as well as maintain access. If there are lane or routes to each and all hunt areas, then great. It might give UW some good PR as well.

Duke

[Quackers]

They are not talking about routes to all impoundments. I have not hunted the east side of the lagoon. George Leath and the others talked about a number of areas over there. The "motorized" routes they talked about would go to some of their favorite locations. Areas to the south weren't talked about too much at all. That is one reason why the public meeting will be interesting. This is going to stir up alot of controversy. Everyone agrees that the grass beds need to be protected somehow. They have the power to shut it down if that is what it will take.

[Mehrenfl]

Quackers,

Were representatives from CCA there or was it just duck hunters? CCA could really give us some good ideas on this matter. I am sure they will be very involved on the fishing side of the story.

[Steve W]

Hmmmm.....

not sure about this.

It seems that we are being distracted to be concerned about an issue that has nothing to do with our concerns which are the impoundments.

Now we are being asked to come up with a plan to save the grassbeds.

This is an issue for the fisherman that are driving the 150hp motors all over the grassbeds. Not some hunters that only get 60 days a year with mud motors and small outboards.

Of course we should support the plan but we must press for our issues, like the grass beds in the impoundments. The culvert locks. Water levels during hunting season. Maintenance of areas other than Blackpoint.

[RutnNStrutn]

I'm on duty that day. I hope some of us can get there and represent the duck hunters. Thanks for the heads up.

[Keith Yates]

I've got to second what Steve posted. I'm all for protecting the grass beds in ML. Lets let the fisherman fight that battle and make sure we have access to the east side of ML. But our mission for MINWR should be to push for the improvement/proper maintenance of the impoundments to help out the over wintering waterfowl which in turn will provide us all with better quality hunting opportunities. I would also like this so it will send the surviving ducks back up north in a healthier condition for breeding purposes.

[N. Cook]

The question is: will other subjects be discussed at this particular meeting? If so UW-F does have positions mentioned in the posts above regarding better management of the impoundments....these positions are longstanding. These positions should be reiterated by the UW-F representative if that is allowable.

If we are restricted to the grass damage issue, then we want to be on the side of conservation but with reasonable access lanes throughout the area. These lanes could be easily marked, including reflectors for nite visibility. The relationships the UW-F representatives develop here will help later on the other issues more important to us. You can be sure the conservationists will win the grass issue, even if it means shuting down all access, so it is best not to be on the adversarial side of this issue. Newton

[green-h]

I'm with Steve and Keith, but would like to
add - All the impoundments need attention
not just a select few.

green-h

[N. Cook]

Steve.....as our site ghuru......we need a page listing the ongoing regional and state projects and the "official" UW-F positions for a reference point for members to use when speaking at meetings. As you know we have a string gathering the projects now and as we agree to do them we need to get them on this particular page I am suggesting. Obviously, the page would need to be revised easily. I would expect no more than two projects per region and three for the state. Can we do this? We will be asking you about a "key agency person or politicial" page and a page listing the newspaper and magazine outdoor editors as well. Thanks for your expertise and comments. Newton

[Steve W]

Yes this can be done.

I will start working on this after I get the stuff turned over to Joe this week.

[uncle D]

Back to the point of grass beds and access.

I feel that a reasonable route should be provided to all huntable areas, inside and outside the refuge's impoundments, as long as it is within the refuge.

That's not saying that I'm for poor management, I've been harping that for years.

This issue hasn't hit the other sites yet, but it probably will.

Duke

[D Duck]

I feel that a reasonable route should be provided to all huntable areas, inside and outside the refuge's impoundments, as long as it is within the refuge.

I have to agree on this point. I'm all for saving the brass beds, but first and foremost, we have to assure access to the hunters. That's what UW is all about. Now, there is no reason this can't easily be done with the proposed trail strategy.

[Converted]

Are there organized fishing groups attending the meeting. It would also benefit fishing access to the flats to have routes to get deep into the grass beds at which point they can leave the access trail and pole. There may be an oportunity to team up here.

[Quackers]

Picture the lagoon with a "main highway". The rest of the area you would have to pole. They are saying we could also use a trolling motor in these areas. I have seen trolling motors tear up grass beds also--so I'm not sure of the logic. Maybe they consider this to be the lesser of the two evils. I don't know if any research is behind it. Doesn't really matter. My equipment will not get me through most of the lagoon efficently. If I am down at the southern end of the lagoon and a stiff north wind comes up, I have one option: pole or troll to the eastern shore, reach the "travel lane", and then motor up the east shore until the lane takes a sharp turn to the west and the boat ramp.

The guides and people who have true "flats boats" may have a great advantage here. How many people have the boats and good poling equipment needed for that expanse of water?

I wouldn't miss this meeting. This is going to be real interesting.

[Larry]

I went by Shiloh 1 Sunday and found at least one duck pond maybe two missing due to dike removal/relocation.

You might want an answer on how extensive the removal of brackish impoundments will become? Seems like they alluded to but never admitted any were in the plan.

[Quackers]

No mention of dikes being removed. This is big news.

Has anyone heard of this? I will send Marc Epstein an email asking what this is about.

[duckmanJR]

I belong to a flats fishing list (CFFA) and the meeting info just hit it yesterday.... seems that most of the fishermen prefer the pole/troll to help stop the loss of the grass beds...It takes a LOOONG time for a prop scar to heal..and i'm not talking about just silting in.... They have done these areas in the keys(Tavernier) and they really help the environment....The "lazy" fishermen go elsewhere....:)

[uncle D]

Larry,

You're refering to the false dike in Sawmill, (Shilo 5)? Or are there other dikes being removed?

Duke

[Quackers]

I will forward the email I received on this dike removal to the group.

[Larry]

They have removed the west point at Shiloh 1 just south of Grassy Island. Even though they weren't large ponds the ducks used them.

[Larry]

A good question related to the dike change would be whether there will be fewer Quota Permits issued for the changed area, shiloh 1?

I have seen quite a few ducks flushing from the missing pond.

[Larry]

The Orlando Sentinel showed the proposed no-motor zone as only Tiger Shoals. Seems like it went west to the WSEG(sp?) Ramp.This would impact the Glory Hole and surrounding impoundments, but not those south such as Pardon etc.

Duck hunters need a method of getting to the north side of the Tiger Shoal impoundments without poling for a couple of miles in the dark. Maybe a dawn to dusk no-motor zone would work? Poling out in the daylight won't be too bad.

[Steve W]

Jacksonville had the same report on Tiger Shoals.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/041804/spo_15374575.shtml

[Quackers]

At the meeting in Palm Coast the travel lane went west and then north and south. This article seems to only discuss the northern area. As Whitmore said "it's not in stone". There should be a number of fishing groups at this meeting also.

[N. Cook]

Does anyone disagree that this thread should be on the public site so folks can see what UW-F is all about? If not, Steve please do so and thanks for your continuing help making this UW-F website the most DUCK HUNTING oriented site in FL.

[uncle D]

ttt

[Quackers]

Went to the meeting. As expected, people who make their living on the lagoon were in the majority.

Two main things came out of this meeting. Most people want the "test area" expanded beyond Tiger Schoals. One group wanted the area extended down to Cumberland. The other thing was money. They are looking at a number of options. Ramp fees were discussed.

As far as I know, I was the only duck hunter there. My idea of everyone buying a duck stamp did not get much attention. They want a "user fee". Money collected there--stays there.

Their budget is being cut. The number of officers is being cut. Enforcement is seen as a major issue in the future.

Mark Epstein was not at this meeting.

The next meeting will be in New Smyrna. Sometime in May. It is estimated that 30% of the people come in from the north.

If this program stays in the CCP catagory, any changes are years in the making. Most of the people that attended this meeting thought that that was unacceptable. They want something done now.