Should STA's be hunted more than 1 day?

[novaalex]

Given the condition of STA1W it is very possible that it may be closed next year. During the last two weekends of this past year the SFWMD and FWC allowed hunters to hunt STA 3/4 on Sundays because of the closure. Although we are all grateful for this special concession many believe that the pressure degraded the quality of hunting at STA 3/4. How would this pressure impact the resource over the course of a season? Five years ago we had no STA's in two years we may have 5 or 6, would it be wise for us to pass on hunting 3/4 twice per week knowing that the year after we will probably get to hunt STA1 , 2, 3/4, 5, and possibly even 6?

[Wilbur]

I dont think two days of hunting will drive the birds off as long as they are not back to back. The down side is that this may not work for the work and managment that is being done during the week. A mid week and a weekend hunt give the ducks a chance to settle down with no pressure between hunts. Just my .02 worth based on past experience. Daily pressure will run the ducks off in short order, I see this happen every year.

[Converted]

3/4 was falling off quite a bit the week before the hunts were moved. Several of our members that went to 3/4 the week of the winter meeting blanked or got 1 or 2 birds.

I'm not saying if it is a good idea or not but I don't think you can use 3/4 as an example of what will happen. I don't know why the birds moved on but I don't think it was the Sunday hunts.

If you look at the check station data you will note a decline between 1/7 and 1/14. It continued down to 1/21 which was not affected by the 1/22 hunt. The 1/27 hunt was about the same as the 1/21 hunt.

http://www.myfwc.com/duck/Check_Stations/STAs/2005/STA3_4/05_STA3_4-1.htm

BTW I laid the ground work at the SFWMD meeting and we need to continue to pound home the following message:

We will work with you, we have shown that we will work with you. When the parking and access was screwed up two years in a row by hurricanes at 1W, we didn't complain, we were happy to get access and we made the best of it. When you had to draw down 1W, we didn't complain we moved on to 3/4 and made the most of it. Next year when you have construction traffic on STA 2, keep us in mind. If there is a cell that does not have construction traffic on a saturday or sunday we would like to have access. If you need to bring heavy equipment in there to meet some schedule, we will understand and make the most of it.

BTW the "BRIDGE" issue and access to STA 2 should not come up again. Thanks guys for the local intel. Let's see... how did Newton put it... "It is my understanding that several $30,000 bass boats are being pulled over that bridge every weekend. For heaven's sake, we're just talking about a few Kayaks and canoes in the back of pickup trucks" :rolleyes:

We also found out the the district does not own the bridge. BIG SUGAR owns the bridge. I think we know someone that can grant us the needed access rights. :icon_salu

[DuckManDan]

JUST LOOK AT THE CHECK STATION DATA...IT SPEAKS FOR IT'S SELF :tard: DARRR!!!!!!!!

[pepi]

I'm definitely against a back to back hunt in one area. I don't care what anybody says, this will drive the ducks away!!!!!!!! I've seen it happen almost everywhere that there's alot of pressure.

[SSPhone]

In the past when we had the Pits here in Polk county to hunt there were 2 hunts per week. A Wed hunt and a Sat hunt. Mornings only though.

[novaalex]

tHE SPLIT DAY OPTION IS NOT AN OPTION! Due to construction and maintenance we are not likely to be allowed on the properties during the week. I have expressed to Newton that I think it is wise to be humble and appreciative at this point. David has pointed out how we have always worked hand in hand with the District on all matters. I think we have to stop and analyze the situation and not act like a bunch of desperate kids. Look towards the future, we may be hunting on 5 different STA's in two years. Just because 1W may be closed next year that's OK. Continue to work with the District get everything squared away on 1W and in 2007 we will have 1W,2,3/4,5, and maybe 6. Just listen to how childish this sound, " We went you to let us on 3/4 twice a week because we can't get on 1W!" It sounds much better when you say, " Ladies and gentlemen we appreciate everything you have done for us and we are willing to do the necessary work and scarifice to make sure these properties succeed at their intended goal. What can we do to assure that STA1Wis restored? Please let us know if there is anything we could do for you? Last but not least thank you for letting us hunt STA 3/4 on Sundays when STA1W closed last season. As far as next year is concerned we feel that hunting that property two days a week may be detrimental to the bird population because that property is only in it's second year and it would benefit from the rest instead of the pressure!"

[jtlillia]

I Agree ,as Long As The Hunts Are Not Back To Back 2 Hunts A Week Should Be Too Much Pressure.

Joe

[brightlights]

Not asking is a definite no. Having a second day to hunt on 3/4 is still a hunting opportunity. To me a sussefull hunt is NOT merely defined by the number of birds taken. We usually take as many shots with the camera as we do with the gun.

[N. Cook]

I believe a different set of cells for each day can be set up on either 3/4 or 5 if Sat.and Sun. is needed in leiu of 1 W. 3/4 is probably best as it is larger and with two or three widely separate areas that have good duck habitat.

I do not want to lose two things....one the "virgin" we got this year with hunting on both days of the weekend on one STA....remember the STAs will be doubled, some tripled in size in the next few years and can easily be split into sections allowing hunting both days. The concept of hunting both days on an STA was poorly received up to the situation last year....it is accepted now and routine....lets keep it that way for the future opportunities on the much larger STAs to come. I might add, we were able to make adjustments at the STAs due to another "virgin" we got last year, the multiple parking places beyond 25 for flexibility where only 25 slots where available before. We cannot give up these gains. Who knows what will happen....if we had not overcome the 25 parking spot limit, STA 1 W may have never opened last year.

The other point is I am not for giving up on the opportunity for 1000 hunters to go duck hunting on an STA just because the "quality" may be effected. Two day hunting will not completely ruin the experience. Knocking out 1000 people who would be very glad just to have a chance on an STA (one third of all the STA hunting opportunities) and get three birds versus denying them that opportunity so another group can limit out.....???

Our goal is to get as many of the public out on the public resource with a reasonable chance at success...if you want an uncrowded and guaranteed hunt....get a lease.

[duckmanJR]

Newton, I agree with your above post. The fact that we got these things and are now "past practice" and acceptable are great strides. As I said in a previous post 3/4 is so big at 17,000 acres a north zone one day and south zone the next would have less impact on the birds.
Additionally, We KNOW that they are not going to allow access during the week while workers are present..forget the idea...waste of breath!
I also do not believe that a sunday hunt will automaticly be a "lesser" experience. If you really think so..get all YOUR permits for saturday!
NEVER LOOK A GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH! :)

[novaalex]

Joe if you're so confident about that then try hunting Goodwin on Sundays right after Saturday as opposed to Tuesday.
I understand that we are about opportunity but we are not the "liberal social services movement of duck hunting in Florida." Most of us are experienced hunters who seek a quality hunt. I understand that being out in the marsh and watching the sunrise and yada yada yada is nice but face it folks we would not be talking about this if you could not count on seeing thousands of birds at these places. If you want proof look at STA 1W how many people complained when it closed? Very few and of those who complained it was because they were in extremely close proximity or because they knew exactly where the ducks were. I recommend that we proceed with extreme caution when mapping out exactly how to hunt STA3/4 on consecutive days. Last but not least I demand an apology for the blasphemous use of the "Crown Jewel STA5" in relation to consecutive hunts. Don't mess with the crown jewel!!!!!!! Why has nobody mentioned the possibilty of getting access to one of the CERP projects for next year?

[Keith Yates]

Hunting 2 days in a row you will more than likely see a drop off in action. At MI this happens all the time sometimes 3 days in a row depending on when the holidays fall. It is still good but not the same.

[QuackR WhackR]

I have to agree with novaalex.. I believe that back to back two day hunts would be detramental to the success that we are now enjoying.. Even though the STA is huge, two days of shooting may move the birds out.. I am in favor of leaving it as it is, for now....

Dave

[novaalex]

Joe, you and I may negotiate past practice and win from a labor dispute where there is a contract. A lawyer may sucessfully argue the concept of past practice as an accepted norm in the real world but in the world of STA's there is no contract or law. It is simply what the District allows us. We do not have rights, we have privileges. Privileges do not come with entitlements they can be revoked at any time. So what I say to all of you is stop being so arrogant about the 500 measly permits and look towards the future when we will have 6 or more STA's. If at this point the District asks us for our opinions and makes concessions so that we can be satisfied, what better time than now to show them how "good" we are. Show them that we are not just a user group, prove to them that we are partners with them in the whole Recreational Access Policy. This is not about the ducks than I can kill this is about the future. Take Reddfinn for instance, he proved that you do not need the StA's to sucessfully harvest ducks the entire year. Our group had great luck in the Glades until our permits kicked in for January. We have always stressed how great our relatonship is with the District, now is the perfect time to show them what we are made of. Now is the time to wheel and deal. Now is the time to say, " Hey guys we know you have to fix 1W(gitrdone), we don't have to get on 3/4 twice a week next year. We have to do is fix 1W, open 2 and 6, and when that gets done by the end of 2006(wink wink) we will be able to hunt all of them for the 06-07 season. BTW, what can we do to help?"

[N. Cook]

The District's current plan as presented to the Recreation Workshop is for STA 2 to "perhaps" be the next opened for recreation in the 2009/10 season. This is based on the construction projects scheduled for the next three years. New STAs, like the one in Martin County are also on a track for 2009 or later. At this point there is no "schedule" for when the reservoirs may be available for public use....a nebulous "they should be done about 2012", although some should be on line earlier I'm sure.

We hope we can improve the timing, but this is the government we are dealing with......We will be attending a lot of meetings and progress will be in starts and stops over the next three to four years.....

Fun for all!

[Randy Clark]

i drive 500 miles round trip to hunt the best place in florida not the second rate place we can maybe kill three ducks at jessup mid season but if i go to the stas and i only kill two i dont complain cause i see thousands two days back to back will screw tis up totaly. I have to say i would rather hunt one sta once a year than have it like my hunts up here. you dont understand what you have in your backyard appreciate it and please dont screw it up.

[matthersjr]

guys are getting greedy about hunting it more than once a week

[Keith Yates]

Lets just hope the FWC doesn't make the next STA's that come on line Special Op for ducks. I'm sure people would pay.

[Randy Clark]

shouldnt even vebalise that thought let alone put it in print kieth heck thats about as bad as talking about rain when you have a whole slab of wet concrete just down or somebodys roof open darn it i know everyone has been thinking those bad thoughts except hopefully the fwc

[godvlman]

Without bringing UW-F into the mix....

I think I have to call BULLSHEET on STA 2 not being open because of construction untill 2009/10!!! That STA was established and up in running before STA 3/4 was even built!!! I know and from the inside information I get there is some construction going on but it not enough to effect hunting even this year!!! They threw the "BRIDGE" aspect into the deal last year or at least that is what I remember them supposively saying that they are building a new bridge but it was not going to be built in time!!! That bridge is built and gated off!!! From my understanding that was a wash at this meeting because we called there bluff about there being another acess point and the so called "old" bridge already being used!!!

I think it comes down to POLITICS and there is no reason that the area wasnt open this year and is not going to be open for the years to come!!!

As far as the 1600 additional acres at STA 3/4 in the back northwest corner--that area was hunted this year by many of hunters "closed or not closed" and produced very few birds!!! With that being said... why was it not open this year?? (did not see any problem with the levys or any construction going on except for a very small amount in the northeast corner of the property

That 1600 acres has changed hands over two years ago from my understanding!! The area as well as all the surrounding areas is very well overgrown and not huntable.... Not to say by next year it may be but from my understanding it was and is going to be sprayed but will not be a so called " prime source" for waterfowl in the year to come!!!

I guess what I am saying is the information that I am hearing from SFWMD is really losing credibility with me!!! I understand that we are at the mercy of SFWMD but i think enough is enough!!!

[novaalex]

The information you are hearing here is secondhand! You would actually have to be in the presence of these district officials to here it from them. I value your knowledge and I agree with you on everything except your choice of beer but sometimes the news as we report it can be misinterpreted. You should come with me to the next meeting so you can voice your opinion to the wigs before hand and then listen to what they have to say for yourself. Once you mention your job and where you work it will give you instant credibility and they will know not to bullsheet you! Let me know what meeting you want to go to and we can have the regulars take a break and we will head up together. I guarantee you it would be an enlightening experience!

[godvlman]

Alex,

Sorry that you dont like the beer that I drink!!!! Guess I am just a lightweight!!

I will give you a call and we can compare schedules to work something out!!

Thanks...

[Converted]

Alex is exactly correct. We NEED folks that know these properties well to be at the meetings. It's not just second hand info. Many of the presenters that work for the district do not have personal knowledge of the day to day activity on the projects. Example We tell Jerry we want STA 2 opened up. Jerry tells someone at the district. They tell him there is a problem with a bridge. He tells those of us in attendance at the meeting and it sounds reasonable so we go on to the next subject.

Thanks to the info we got about the bridge being used now we were able to rule that out as an excuse. When the next excuse comes up it would be good to have local knowledge available to call BS.

[novaalex]

You pull your weight just fine brother! You are a Hyper Speed Deamon just like me and the line about the wine glasses making too much noise as you were backing up the Prevost is a classic. When it comes to camping out you guys redefined "taking it to new level!" The first day I saw that thing I was like, "Im not worthy!" David is right! The job of the Board and Regionals is to find people like you with that have pertinent info. Then, together we turn that info over when it is most advantageous to the process! I can guarantee you one thing John the more people that step up the greater our chances of achieving a united and common goal. Many times our leaders have to go with their gut instinct because they don't have the local info. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are not. If we don't get involved we can't blame anyone else for what happens in our own backyard! BTW David if I was you living in PSL I would be chomping at the bit over the Martin County Project. When they open that place Im camping out in your driveway brother!!!!