Uw-f Sfwmd Rec. Meeting Presentation

[N. Cook]

The following is the hand out that will be distributed:

The following are proposals to continue the opening of public lands to recreation, especially waterfowling.

1. Reservoirs: The CERP reservoirs are storage areas that will have deviations in depths tied to rainfall. These reservoirs will be attractive to waterfowl at every depth level. The reservoirs are not "filter marshes" and should not have the restrictions to access required on STAs. Public access to the reservoirs requires basic boat ramps constructe to allow launching at the various depths expected and parking for vehicles and trailers. UW-F suggests the reservoirs have the same regulations as the current WCAs.

[N. Cook]

2. STAs: The STA hunting program has been a success and is highly publicized with positive reflections for the District. UW-F prooposes the program be expanded. Despite construction, STA 2 should be opened for Sunday hunting in 2006/07. Accomodation can be made for access. A count on constrution vehicles using the access road and "bridge" on Sundays is suggested for a ten week period in the summer.

STA 5 and 3/4 permitted hunting parties should be increased. These larger STAs with multiple cells have the capacity to safely add access.

Afternoon sessions on the STAs should start at 1:30 PM versus 2:00 PM to allow hunting time more equivalent to the morning sessions.

3. UW-F requests the SFWMD review the placement of "NO TRESSPASSING" and/or "NO HUNTING" signs in the Kissimmee River, Kissimmee Chain of lakes, and Lake Kissimmee. Other than for safety purposes, signs placed in such a manner as to block access to public owned marshes and shallows should be moved back toward the vicinity of the line demarking Sovereign Sumerged Lands. UW-F is not asking that signs be moved onto normally dry land where the SSL boundary may be actually be, but only to the edge of the marshes. UW-F understands the difficulty of determining the boundary on often dry land, but believes the normal marsh areas can be easily defined.

4. UW-F request the District survey all parcels of land, including smaller sizes, that are not currently open to recreation. Land that can be opened for hunting or other recreation, even on a temporary basis, should be made available for public use. Hunting on small parcels for dove is especially needed in the more populated areas. These could be designated SMALL GAME HUNTING AREA with shotgun only allowed.

[Converted]

I called Jerry to talk about the C44 project. He is adding an agenda item to discuss recreational access on that property. We need to come up with a position statement by the SFWMD Recreation Committee which will be presented at the Public meeting in Martin county on the 16th.

[N. Cook]

The District has said for years that the bridge had too much "construction" traffic and is dangerous for the public.....and several years ago, before much construction, they said the bridge "needed repairs". Neither excuse holds water....one, if the bridge was in such bad shape how does it carry construction traffic....two, Sunday activity probably is nil....

The whole area, the old Brown's Farm included, has been off limits to the public too long.

[godvlman]

Newton,

If you are talking about the bridge on US 27... That is not the only way to gain acess to the "Browns Farm" or STA 2. You can also gain acess thru Belle Glade off of SR 880 as well, I would have to look at the map to tell you the name of the road. The bridge off of US 27 has quite alot of traffic going across it every weekend, The L7 levee which seperates the STA from WMA 2 has brand new green FWC signs along it explaining that you are entering the WMA like you see at all the boat ramps and public acess areas in the glades there are even a few places you can launch a jon boat along the levee. I see alot of boats coming/going down the levee going back and forth across the bridge

I would think if they didnt want you crossing the bridge they would not of put up the signs. I have never seen an FWC officer mess with any of the fisherman in this area as well. Some of the boats I have seen going up and down the levee are large boats too... (Stratos and Rangers in the 20ft range)

[N. Cook]

Appreciate the first hand knowledge..... it is a long way from my house....I have tried to find my way off of Rt. 880 south down Browns Farm Rd. but did not seem to get where I was heading for...

I cannot speak of which bridge you describe....the one we hear about from the District is not suppose to have any public traffic now....but.....you never know if they even are correct in their info....Would be very important if 'THAT BRIDGE' is the one!!!! now being regularly used by anglers with boats and trailers.....

If you can be more specific and refer to a map it would help.

Thanks

[godvlman]

Newton,

I have checked my map and the road is not listed. The signs are all gone since the Hurricane however there was originally a sign off of SR 880 a few miles west of STA 1.

The bridge I am talking about is a 1 way bridge located off of US 27 just south of the STA 3/4 pump station on the east side of US 27. It has been used for acess forever.

However there is more than 1 way to acess the area like I said either from the bridge on US 27 or from SR 880, if I can come up with the name of the road/levee I will let you know.

[Converted]

I seem to remember that the bridge in question has no guard rails. I could be mistaken though.

[N. Cook]

My understanding also....no rails and in poor shape.....I can not find a map with the roads, even the Florida Atlas just has lines that may or may not be a road or a levee or just the edge of a field. I know some folks go to the "power lines" just west of the canal around the Refuge to dove hunt...albeit not suppose to do so.

If the bridge is being used by boat trailers accessing the canals....that would be very interesting!

[N. Cook]

Lots of positive responses to the items above at the meeting.....except STA 2 will be a battle....lots of construction the District staff says..

The 3 persons groups for the STAs got a positive response from Jerry and the idea is in the mix to add hunters next season.

The signing on the rivers and marshes will be reviewed, not only on the Kiss. but in general.

The District will survey all lands for more hunting opportunities...Dade and Broward counties were specifically mentioned.

Still some uncertainty on the status of boat ramps and access to the Reservoirs, but we are early in the program and in time to get them designed into the plans. I remain positive we will get ramps but it will take constant pushing.

All items we suggested are on the agenda for future actions and meetings.

[novaalex]

Thanks again Newton for being there. I know that you said Mr. Krenz was receptive to the 3 person idea but what did he really say? Was it like, " Man why didn't we think of that before?" I take it from your report there were no negative issues raised by the staff.

[Converted]

Jerry really liked the idea. I talked with him for several minutes outside before the meeting. He had gotten a call from Jeff Allen so he was already thinking about it. He liked it more than the switch to 40 permits because it would likely mean less vehicles, allow a group of 3 friends to hunt 9 out of the 10 hunt days with a permit, tend to keep the additional people we want on grouped with the existing 25 pairs so it is less likely there would be overcrowding problems.

Now we need to take it up with FWC

[novaalex]

Gentlemen it really is a no brainer Im surprised that the idea didn't come up before. This promises to be a very interesting offseason. There are many issues that will shape the future of duck hunting in Florida. I think that a lot has been said about vehicle traffic and how it affects the levee system. This idea ia a sure way to reduce the traffic. I personally thnk that in addition to making the Hunter Safety Card mandatory a limit should be placed on shells and vehicles. There is absolutely no reason why 3 hunters cannot fit their gear into one vehicle and if shells are limited there would be less issues concerning weight in the canoe. We have to take advantage of proposing things from a safety standpoint because that will add to our credibility in addition to actually making things safer.

[Converted]

I think we need to be careful about proposing rules that are more restrictive. One of our other stated goals is to reduce regulation imposed upon waterfowlers. I would not be in favor of vehicle or shell restrictions. I'm kinda up in the air on the Hunter Safety card or 1 time mandatory waterfowl workshop. Good intentions for sure but Merritt Island requires them and the yahoo's still manage to show up there every year. Good intentions that don't yield results mean just more regulation that we all need to deal with.

[novaalex]

David I don't think you can compare MINWR to the STA's. I think that Goodwin is a better comparison. Jamie and the boys run a tight ship over there and you don't here any of the locals complaining because they know that it is for the good of the resource. I have hunted STA5 since the first season and i have seen the class of hunter degrade before my very eyes. Excuse me if I offend any of the affirmative action types but due to the STA's close proximity to Miami(specially 3/4) there is an attraction for those group of rogues. These are the people that we must stamp out. There must be a law enforcement presence and these people must be dealt with. I assure you that the members of UW-F will not see this as a hinderance they will welcome these changes because in the long run it will benefit our main mission. Funny story about last day at STA-5 a friend of mine was paddling out of the canal on Number 6 @ STA5 and he sees a guy totally take out a comorant. He screams at them in Spanish to no avail. Later as he was leaving the levee area he sees that group paddle to shore and load up in a Ford Econoline Van(White) they didn't speak spanish! We have to be careful at pointing fingers unless we know the truth for sure but I can tell you that the only reason we are still on those properties is because the SFWMD does not enforce hunting regs and the FWC does not do enough. If the truth came out about the lawless behavior exhibited many would be surprised by who the perpetrators are and we would be gone. WE MUST PROTECT OUR PRIVILEGES!

[N. Cook]

UW-F spoke to the need for more law enforcement at the FWC Commissioners Meeting in Gainesville, including a side session with top FWC enforcement officials. We will be included in further discussions.

We also will be working on a local basis with Chuck and the law enforcement side of the FWC here.

We do not need additional rules or restrictions....we need enforcement. Except for setting up too close to others and skybusting, the complaints are enforcement situations. I have suggested some "blue lights" out on the levees just prior to shooting time.....some FWC trucks visible on the levees during hunting with binoculars obvious...all to let the would be lawbreakers know they need to watch what they are shooting and how many.

The officers tend to spend too much time at the check station looking for technical violations.....duck stamp signed?....we need them to be more visible on the marsh. An occassional canoe moving about with an officer on board would be a good deterence. I am sure the District would allow them a trolling motor.

The FWC, especially on the hunting side, is short of money and personnel....we are not casting blame here....just asking for a change in activity toward presence and deterrence.

[Converted]

Alex,
We want the same thing, the question is how to achieve it or if it is possible to achieve at all.

We'll take them 1 by 1.

Hunter Safety Card. I submit that simply having a hunter safety card is going to do very little if anything to keep comorants from being shot. It will do nothing about sky busting. It will not keep folks from setting up on top of you. It will not keep folks from shooting early or late.

It will force a bunch of folks who have been duck hunting for years and who are not part of the problem to have to go look up a FWC hunter safety class, take a Saturday or several weekday evenings for class and then go shoot a .22 at the range one Saturday.

It's generally not a bad idea to make folks have a Hunter Safety Card. I'm not totally opposed to it. I doubt however that it will clean things up to a noticable degree. It would be an unnecessary extra hurdle for many of the users and probably not offer much benefit to the STA experience.

BTW Goodwin has it's share of problems as well. In addition they have the assigned spots rules up there. Do you want to see that at the STA's?

[Randy Clark]

well another hurdle may cut down on a few that wont do it just to go hunt but i also agree that it is not the answeri agree with newton the presence of the fwc on the levees as we drive out in the morning makes a bigger difference than all the schooling would you cant teach good ethics in a class they have to be learned through life. of course knowing the fwc is on the levee in the canoe (not bothering me unessisarly checking my shoptgun plug in the marsh) but just being out there would be a detternt. or one the levee with binoculars

[novaalex]

is often difficult to achieve. My sentiment about the HSC is pointed specifically at a group of hunters that I know would not go through the trouble but then again these same hunters would probably try to access the STA's without the card and if there was no enforcement then it would be a mute point. As far as parking spaces are concerned if it would make it better I would not be opposed. Heck I hunted STA1 when there was no parking and that was a 3 plus mile walk with all our gear to get to the hallowed grounds. I didn't mind doing it. In fact it was fun. I enjoyed watching all the different hauling equipment, passing other people who weren't in as good shape, etc. I agree that the most important part is the enforcement and regretfully it has been missing. Just take for example the last day of the season at STA 5, rumor has it that LEO's were on the marsh and they busted a group of 3-4 guys who shot over 8(eight) fulvous whistling ducks. As far as setting up to close to other hunters well that's public hunting. Most hunters will gravitate to the areas that are easiest to get to and or have the most ducks. I for one like to stay awayfrom the crowd. Seems to me that a lot of the folks who complain about people setting up on top of them are the ones shooting comorants. Bring on the LEO's don't tell any body and let the courts settle things.

[marsh rat]

I think we need to be careful about proposing rules that are more restrictive. One of our other stated goals is to reduce regulation imposed upon waterfowlers. I would not be in favor of vehicle or shell restrictions. I'm kinda up in the air on the Hunter Safety card or 1 time mandatory waterfowl workshop. Good intentions for sure but Merritt Island requires them and the yahoo's still manage to show up there every year. Good intentions that don't yield results mean just more regulation that we all need to deal with.

I would have to agree with converted 100% we dont need more rules

[Randy Clark]

the last day of sta 5 afternoon trey was talking and was told the waders and guns where confiscated the only reason they kept the truck was they didnt want to deal with driving them to town or just not mean enough to make them walk from the stas quite an expense for a couple of extra ducks i agree with public humiliation for offenses of this nature i sure would honked and waved if i saw them walking out.if they had decided to keep their trucks too

[swilli1054]

I don't think that the hunter safety course will make that big a difference. Every year a larger precentage of hunters have the card because of the fewer number of people that are grandfathered in by their birthdate. Also waterfowl hunting is usually covered in about 5 minutes at the class (and usually by someone that knows very little about waterfowl).The waterfowl work shop attendance is also a bad idea. Is there even a course offered in north florida?
The only real deterence is LEOs.If everyone knows that the odds of getting away with over the limit or shooting early are slim to none they will not do it.
The shell issue is tricky. First of all it has to be enforced. And that will take a LEO to be there. Second is the number of shells needed by hunters depends on their experience. A box is good for most us...on most days...sometimes.. :rolleyes: . However what about a new hunter that requires more shells? And you still have to have the LEO to enforce that rule.
Enforcement of existing rules is the only real answer. Heck..I mean the STAs are a target rich enviroment for the game wardens.
Also if we are having problems getting FWCC LEOs there,then there is always the FEDS and we all know how they love to make cases. :icon_salu

[David B]

I agree with the enforcement issues. They need to leave the check station and patrol the levees a little more. How hard is it to check on hunters with a controlled entrance/exit point? Ride around the STAs and glass folks out there. The LEOs can't be everywhere all of the time, but if they are at the STAs they can move from the gate and check on things.
I liked the sign with shooting times on it. Maybe a small dry erasible board. Goodwin has a big sign and a clock at the check station. I utilized my GPS or the dispatch in my past services.
If everyone had it in front of them, then they can't deny it. IF the LEOs our moving about the prescence is known. Sure there will be the extremely stupid one even after all of the bottle feeding.