Kiss. Shady Oak Ramp loss seems RESOLVED

[N. Cook]

I am pleased to announce that Byron Maharrey and I met with Ruth Clements, SFWMD, Director Land Acquistion, and Fred Davis, Land Steward, during todays SFWMD WRAC meeting. There will be a proposal to the Board at the meeting next week that a triple ramp be built at Otter Slough with access to Rt. 60 to replace the Shady Oak ramp. There will be good facilities there. Also, if the current ramp at Grape Hammock is endangered by the forthcoming rise in the lake, the proposal is for the District to modify the ramp to save it and may even develop an adjacent park area.

This is a very much appreciated reaction to the outcry from the many "interested parties", including UW-F membership. The District continues the current direction to include the public and public recreation in planning. Thanks to all who helped on this project. We will be watching as the process to build the ramps, etc., moves ahead.

[QuackR WhackR]

Newton:

That is GREAT news.. I think we all owe you a great deal of appreciation and graditude for all the work that you, and the other Board Members do, for the members of United Waterfowler's of Florida..

I, for one, salute you... :icon_salu :icon_salu


Dave

[Randy Clark]

your the man

[N. Cook]

Without the many emails and letters from members sent all the way up to Gov. Bush an individual can do little on any given issue.....any one, not just me or any one person, who develops relationships with the staffs in the various agencies can do these things across the state when part of a larger group that will work on issues in a positive way. That is what UW-F is all about. Those of you who have the time and will make the meetings, a boring time as 98% of the subjects will not involve your issues, can have similar impacts. You will make more friends than you imagined and often the "enemies" just need some friendly stroking!!!! albeit occasionally with a calloused hand.

[Novalex]

Newton,

What about the so-called "surplusing" of the extra lands.

Will they be sold to developers as the FAA fears???


From BlackpowderScout on the airboat boards:


Here is Mr Cook's response to my email followed by mine...if any of you are duck hunters, I have nothing against duck hunting but this guy isn't affected by this and therefore is trying to defend SWFMD.


Mr. Wellington....The facts are simple. The lake is going to be raised. The SFWMD is going to acquire the neccessary land to accomplish that. The land is not often available in just the small parcels needed for the easements at a reasonable price. Buying whole properties is advantageous cost wise.....and the chances that land will remain in a rural or natural state in the hands of the District are much higher than if left in private hands to be sold to developers,,,,,just look around you.....most of the "natural" land with any public access is state or WMD owned. Most of that land will stay that way for generations.....could you say the same for the Shady Oaks property in the private realm?

Buying land is an expensive proposition and when you are buying many properties for a variety of mandates not every piece will fit. I am no great defender of any of the WMDs, but I support their purchasing of as much of the undeveloped land as can be afforded and keeping as much as they can undeveloped.....but I also realize they have a job to do by legislation and not everyone can be satisfied with the results.

The SFWMD has undergone a sea change in their approach to the uses of public land in the last few years. Henry Dean pushed for more concern for the public use and recreation on District lands and Carol Wehle has continued that mandate.

There remain a lot of people who have knee jerk reactions, perhaps due to the past actions of the WMDs. Some of the distrust was well earned....but when the District makes an honest attempt to meet the public's needs, it is counter productive to just keep piling on critizism. The Shady Oaks boat ramp and facilities are old and in poor shape.....you are going to get a first class facility well maintained and in place for generations....learning when you have made the sale and to say "thanks" is a basic skill in negotiations....I am glad to say "thanks".

As far as the Plaque is concerned....the SFWMD has made tough adjustments in attitude to open the premier duck hunting marshes in the USA, the STAs to the public. By legal mandate, any thing that interferes with their function to filter phosporous out of the water flowing in them is banned. The District dedicated a lot of time and money proving duck hunting did not interfere and has opened several to over 3000 hunters per season. Not only the STAs but the Kissimmee restoraton project has created duck hunter meccas, and the District's effort to open the WCAs in South Florida this year despite high water levels was very much appreciated by waterfowlers.......Like I said....you need to know when to say "thanks".

Newton Cook
President UNITED WATERFOWLERS-FL


Mr Cook, the name is Wetherington,

Do you even know what is going on with Shady Oaks???? They are going to surplus it (that means sell it off to private individuals) . Of course I realize that the land is better of in WMD hands, thats why we want them to keep it.

You speak of SWFMD as having made an honest attempt at meeting public needs....how have they done this??? The Shady Oaks property is a perfect example of them not having done so. I refuse to give thanks to anyone who has any part in trying, covertly and away from the publics eyes, to aquire land knowing full well that they are going to surplus it and make money AND LOSE THE NATURAL PIECE OF PROPERTY!!!

I can understand that you are in love with SWFMD and it's administrators because they are helping you and other waterfowlers out down south...hooray for you. But when that private developer buys that land and builds those houses, where do you think all that pollution is going to go?? Shady Oaks is practically the closest land to the mouth of the Kissimmee River and all the pollutants will flow straight down to your precious duck habitat.

When this land is gone, they'll come looking for more and perhaps it will be in your neck of the woods. I hope not, but if so, don't come crying on my shoulder.

Adam Wetherington


More:


here is what mr. newton cook sent me;

There appears to be a difference in money from what the District was able to acquire the land for and what can be received for use of the parcel which includes the boat ramp that is positive and allows the District to keep the flow easement and have funds for other projects, including new important land acquistions.

Tens of millions of dollars are involved in favor of the District, and no doubt makes the "compromise" to open new and improved ramps on nearby district property and protect the ramp on what is or soon will be District land at Grape Hammock a win win for all of us.

Our next issue in the area is the "no tresspass" signing around the lake that could be moved back toward the true District borders and open a large area to public access. The secret of making progress is to move as partners with the District's objectives whenever we can.
Newton

here is what I sent back

Ladies and Gentlemen: Thank you very much for your consideration of this matter and the attempt at a solution. I realize that no solution ever makes everyone happy but at least some attempt has been made. I am still puzzled why a new facility needs to be built from scratch when the area at shady oaks already exists and would really appreciate it if someone could rationalize the additional expenditures to build a new one and the time delay involved. It seems it takes years for anything to come to actual usability status. The shady oaks site only needs a sign or two and the gate unlocked. Then a triple ramp could be constructed there while the other single is being used by boaters. There would be no impact on the environment that has not already taken place. Shady oaks is not in a really environmentally sensitive area, There is ample parking existing, there are existing bathroom facilities, there is a store or was a store that could be leased to a vendor for revenue to the district. The shady oaks site has the potential with very little effort to be one of the crown jewels of public/private co-operation for the benefit of all sportsman/fisherman in the district. I am sure if the land is being sold to a developer they surely wouldn't miss that little piece of land and if they do just drop me a line back and I will arrange a sale with someone who will build the citizens of florida a boat ramp. I am surveyor and a realtor and development is my game and I play it very well. I have buyers standing ready to move on that site if you wish to open it up for public bidding. Thank You
John D. O'Neill PSM 5233, Realestate sales person, Mortgage broker, State of Florida lisc.'s.

here is the reponse sent back to me from gatorslick

They are not in the land "dealing" business. We the taxpayer want to keep the property public. Squeaky wheel.............
Newton does do a good job.
PW


here is my response

Just exactly who is not in the land dealing business?? surely you dont mean the water management district because they are. Newton wrote back explaining how the district was gonna make 10's of millions of dollars to buy more land.

so I am confused with your reply to me please explain John


then I sent this one after he blasted BPS

Mr. Newton:

Could you be so kind as to point out one such ramp that has actually been constructed such as you describe. Typically after years of environmental impact and feasibility studies the projects are scrapped as being to costly or bad for the environment. By the time this happens the ones who were upset about the losses have long since either given up hope or have died. The WMD'S really do stand for Weapons of Mass Destruction based on the past abuses they have put over on the people of Florida. They earned the distrust we have displayed here. Maybe they have changed or maybe they had to give in to the DUCK HUNTER GROUPS because of the strength of DUCKS UNLIMITED I don't know.

Yes SHADY OAKS RAMP is old but there is plenty of room to construct a new facility while not depriving us of use of the old one. The WMD'S have a history of wasting millions of dollars on studies as you have pointed out. They had a chance here to do something good for us with out having to do an expensive study but obviously that is not going to happen. If flooding was the real problem they would simply close the ramp area when the water was high just as they do at other ramps. I firmly believe someone is getting a sweetheart deal here and they have almost got caught at it.If it was really in the interest of the citizens of florida they could make it a part of the contract to purchase the property that a ramp facility be built by the purchaser and be given to the county or state after completion to be utilized by the people. They have not said they are going to build us any access points only that they are going to do a study on one. They will mess it around until we are wore out and then it will simply fade away just like us.

So excuse me if I don't run out into the street and share in your celebration. Congratulations on any concessions you may have got from the WMD'S but so far we have only got lip service and not much of that. So you go ahead and give your plaques out for what you got that is the right thing to do but don't beat us up because we are not joining in your celebration.

[Converted]

... I am still puzzled why a new facility needs to be built from scratch when the area at shady oaks already exists and would really appreciate it if someone could rationalize the additional expenditures to build a new one and the time delay involved.

The lakes of the upper Kissimmee chain are being raised to provide for more storage capacity. It's all part of the "water flows downhill" problem that ends up killing the St. Lucie and Calossahatchee estuaries. The Shady Oaks property was bought becuase part of it will be flooded during times of high water. The ramp will not be usable either.

The shady oaks site only needs a sign or two and the gate unlocked.

This is a battle that we continue to fight all over the district. The District calls lands that they buy but have not yet developed a management plan for "interium lands". Access is usually restricted while the lands are in this status. UW-F feels and has advocated in favor of opening up interium lands until construction starts. The district is concerned about liability. We will continue this battle at Shady Oaks and many other areas around the State.

Could you be so kind as to point out one such ramp that has actually been constructed such as you describe.

There are several of them in South Florida. I'll post up some pictures.

The WMD'S really do stand for Weapons of Mass Destruction based on the past abuses they have put over on the people of Florida.

PAST ABUSES is the key here. The problems started in the 1890's and continued through the 1960's I've worked with many many people from the WMD's They are just as mad about past mistakes as most of us are. Most of those past "abuses" were intended to save lives by preventing flooding. They are now working toward finding fixes for those past abuses. I intend to work with them not against them and get as much public access built into those restoration plans as is possible.

These things don't happen over night. Be patient. We are working on plans for projects that won't be completed until 2008, 2010, 2012 and even 2025. It's not just about what land I can hunt on this year, it's about what my grandson can hunt on when they need to load me into the boat! :icon_salu

[David B]

"It's not just about what land I can hunt on this year, it's about what my grandson can hunt on when they need to load me into the boat! "

Thank you Gentleman.

[N. Cook]

To answer Capt. Jeffs question.....there has been no specific determination of what will happen to the land not in the easement yet....usually the District leases the land back for agricultural use....but I cannot say on this property what will happen....obviously developers would love to get it. But they would also love to get it from the previous owners and in time would have....UW-F will work to keep the land rural as an off shoot of our MISSION, but we are targeted like a rifle to improve duck hunting....AND we do not forget a number of our members are airboaters and airboats are an important part of duck hunting here...we support airboat use and access on the marshes.

However, you can just read the responses from those you quote, members of their groups asked for our help I might add and I DID NOT SEE A SINGLE ONE OF THEM AT ANY OF THE MEETINGS THAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE PROPOSALS FOR NEW RAMPS AND THE SAVING OF GRAPE HAMMOCK!!!!!! WE GOT THE JOB DONE....AND I AM NOT A BIT HAPPY WITH THESE FOLKS CRYING THE BLUES AND NOT BEING WILLING TO DO THE HARD LIFTING!!! They may be right about bad dealings in the past...and there may be more in the future, but the attitude they have is detrimental to any progress toward the very goals they seek.

I ask the fellow above....please show me anything you have got done with the District.....and yes there is a new boat ramp at 20 Mile Bend on the north side of the Loxahatchee Federal Refuge that just opened....AND I MIGHT ADD UW-F WAS INVITED TO THE GRAND OPENING.....where were these guys???

And do they so soon forget who led the way to stop the annexing of the marshes they use by Palm Bay....I know some of them were at those meetings....do you think those who directed insults to Mr. Kerr were helpful....or did our measured attack on the legal issues and the ordinances win the day....I highly suggest these people spend some time in a few meetings where nothing moves without total CONSENSUS like I do....like these boat ramps at Kiss. for example.....every group is represented and every one has to agree...from the AUDUBON Society to the ATV riders to Hunters before anything can get done.....they will find out real fast how they will be cast out as rocks in the gears.