BBWD's

[D Duck]

Well according to the report from Joe and my observations over the past 2 weeks, the Black Bellies really are not at risk from being "wiped out" (I think that was the term thrown around last year) in the two specific areas that they are known to congregate en masse. The weekend before season, I saw over 100 of them in one flock flying around just as dumb as always, along with several other smaller flocks.

Guess they must produce like rabbits, either that or the tree nesting is a major advantage to nesting success.

I'm just glad that UW didn't jump the gun and start insisting that the FWC restrict the daily limits before a true scientific study could be performed and analyzed. Good to see science win out over emotion. ;)

[Novalex]

Yep, we get emotional when parties wipe out an entire family group.

It only takes (4) four parties of (4) four & (4) four hunts to wipe out (100) one-hundred BBWD's.

And we saw it happen last year at least twice.

Show me your science & we'll stop being emotional about them.

Before Broadmoor was opened there were over (250) two-hundred & fifty.

Lets see the count after this season.

Till then, Greed has won this round.:mad:


CJ

[duckmanhar]

BBWD have got to be one of the dumbest of all ducks.
I have seen a flock of 30 get blown 2 bitts in just 2 hours and they still lope to the dekes.

I will not attempt to kill more than 1 an outing.
Addmittedly they fry up real well.

I think some kind of restraint should be forced in sake of BBWDs

Just the Duck Hunters thoughts

[duckmanJR]

First, I reported what Steve Rockwood who is the head of the Goodwin/broadmoor WMA relayed to me about the large # of BBWD's in the area. He seemed to think they rebounded quite well from the seasons harvest. I also have in field knowledge from the early season.... We saw a BUNCH of juvie birds... How they will fair on the opener is anyones guess...Only a few years back they would head back to Mexico BEFORE hunting season so this was never an issue.
Second, I never stated that I am happy with the # of birds allowed under the present system....*BUT* We had decided as an organization to support a voluntary restraint approach....
Third, For anything to be truely meaningfull...a scientific study MUST be done...unfortunately, Money for this is not in the FFWC budget. We need to ask Diane Again to please consider it.

Jeff....I think "greed" is too strong a word since it is within' the law to harvest 6 birds. You spend countless hours in the marsh and are a successful hunter..not everyone is at your level and many newer or less experienced/enlightened will maximize any opportunity. I personally will take one to have mounted if presented with an opportunity... otherwise, I personally will "BACK OFF THE BLACKBELLIES" :)

[N. Cook]

Just as we have had the PASS THE PINS, I agree with Duckman that UW-F should state again our agreement to ask for a study and meanwhile use restraint.....say only two instead of six....with Duckman's slogan. The program could be sent out to the same group of outdoor writers and publications that gave the PASS THE PINS such good press.

[Phil T]

I would like to see UW-F take a position of voluntary limits on BBWD's. My son and I had 20+ all around us on early opener and even he could see how easy it would be to shoot them out.

Personally we will limit our take to two.

[uncle D]

As mentioned in our last newsletter, UW promotes the voluntary restraint of taking the BBW.

We would also ask of our members to be concerned of the other species that have been in decline.

Duke

[D Duck]

Love to stir that pot....

Show me your science & we'll stop being emotional about them. Just the answer I would expect....:rolleyes: You have absolutely nothing on which to base your opinion - nothing but the same type of observations that I base mine upon. Who's right, only time will tell.

FWC has more important things to spend their time and money on then studying the population of the BBWD's - you can request all you want, but I highly doubt this ever touches their radar screen.

[matthersjr]

There are plenty to go around. I suggest taking 1 per hunt; the same we do with the mottles.

[Chester P Colet]

Even one per hunt would leave 147 of my 247 hunting budies without a BB. 100 birds in one area isn't much. At six a whack they won't last long. With ten hunters in the area in about three days they will be strip hunted off the face of the water.

[Keith Yates]

Well I'm gonna pass on the Pintails and Black bellies this season. I still had a great season last year without taking any of these birds.

[Novalex]

"Love to stir that pot...."

What's new, coming from the source it's a "no brainer":o

[uncle D]

Dang D Duck,

Stop stirring that pot. Next thing you know you'll be talking widgeon:rolleyes:

Duke

[D Duck]

Wigeon? With the recent decline of them in our bags the past few years, I say we pass on them too! :D:D:D

The point I'm making here is that last year after all the discussion about wiping the populations of BB's out, they have "seemingly" (back to that observation again - it's all we have) bounced back rather well. ;)

[Lawrence]

It just takes one experience with the BBWD to see how dumb thay are. I backed off them big time at the end of the season. I have never seen a Fulvous. Do they act the same way??
For the record, they are expanding their population here as they are now in places that they were not in last year. Had a bunch circling the dekes on saturday. Or rather I had more BBWD circle the dekes than wood duck or teal.
I will mention this in other threads but how about a ten day teal season with the first 5 days to include wood ducks. I know the less confusing regs the better but something like that would be great.

[Steve W]

An idea for consideration:

Why not print up some posters asking hunters to limit their take to two per day-voluntarily?

Just for the Goodwin/Broadmoor areas?

[BlindHog]

I have run into BBWDs at PCS Phosphate WMA last 2 yrs. Like most who have weighed in, I immediately imposed 1 bird limit each on self and son. It almost hurts to shoot them they are so dumb, but we stuffed one and its a beaut of a mount.

I guess the debate on this thread concerns whether the 6-bird limit on em could wipe out the Fla population. I do know that they are way more than numerous in Central America and Mexico where they really "belong". Agree that FWC probably wouldnt spend resources to prevent from being driven back to their native habitat areas.

In a lot of conservation issues, the right answer is to eradicate non-native species. Hard to believe that the BBs would ever "complete" in some harmful way with native species though like the Chinese Tallow tree, walking catfish, etc.

[duckmanJR]

Blind hog.... You are correct in that most "non Native" types are erradicated. We have had a dismal record of introducing species that wind up being a major problem down the road.
I like the Idea of an informational poster with pintail and BBWD's listed and asking concerned sportsmen to voluntarily reduce the take of these species.

[Novalex]

Technically, all migrating waterfowl are "non-native".

You can't really consider any thing with wing as a native since they can go where ever they want.

The only native duck we have in Florida is the Mottled.

So there is really no difference between a BBWD, Pintail, or an African Cattle Egret..

The BBWD & Egrets decided to stay or were blown here by a 'cane.

So it's our responsibility to protect, conserve, & help them propagate so we can "kill them".

As far as a self-imposed limit, our clients understand prior to stepping on the boats that it's (1) one per hunter.


CJ

[RutnNStrutn]

Well, personally I have never killed a Black Belly. So if Jeff wants to back off of them, I am not only going to shoot my 6, I'll shoot his too. That's 12 for me!! :D
And while I'm at it, I'm going to wax some cattle egret too!! I know where plenty of them are at. I'll just put on some of Dragon's new camo, and the egrets will come!! :D
Seriously though gang, Jeff has some valid points, as does Don and others. We will never know who is right until some factual, scientific evidence is provided through research. In the meantime, if these boids are that dumb, we should back off them. Take just 1 or 2, and then fill the rest of your bag with something else. Personally, I love a mixed bag of birds. Though I have never shot one, it sounds to me like shooting a black belly is about as tough as shooting a hog over corn. The only skill involved is being where they are.
To me, part of the thrill of the hunt is scouting, setting up, calling and harvesting the animal, on it's terms, in it's backyard. For smart, reactive animals, that is a challenge. For dumb animals who come back like pigs to a trough, the excitement and satisfaction of the hunt quickly wears off for me.

[duckmanJR]

Rut...Killing BBWD's is as thrilling as a kiss by grandma....
If you wish a "mounter"... the "A" team boys will take you out for *ONE* ....:D

Anyone who hunts with the "A" team boys knows how I feel about certain species before we go...If you have a problem with the "chief" maybe you need to go hunting with a different tribe!
CJ...You and I are on the same page...

If some talented artist(hint=Duke) would draw up a master..Copies could be made and placed at places like Goodwin PCS or anywhere there is a waterfowl check station....

[duckmanJR]

I also think that check station personel should give an informational speech prior to each hunt at Goodwin...just an information and request thing... then if they don't comply and still kill 6..we blanket party them!!!:D :D ;)

actually, I spoke with several fellows about it last season.... some were receptive...others were not....I guess I could just remember their vehicle and pull their valve stems..:D :D give them some time to reflect..:D :D

[uncle D]

Cattle Egrets....I wonder how they eat? Might get some funny looks coming back to the ramp w/ a duck strap full of "tick" birds:D

Maybe I could sketch something up. Should I put a dunce cap on the duck?

As for the speech....I don't think the crew (hunters) at Guana will stick around for a lecture, but I don't think a BBWD has ever been taken there.

Duke

[Steve W]

The problem with PCS is that there is not an area for hunters to gather like at Godwin. The hunters line up on a dirt road. The guy that checks you in sits in his truck, you drive by and get your pass. There are no buildings, parking lot, etc. The only way info could be given out would be to have the check station guy give each person something or have him hang a poster on the outside of his truck, which I doubt many would see in the dark.

The only other solution might be to have a display for the hunters to see on their way out after hunting. At least they would have the info for the next hunt.

Also, I would like to see the South region guys take on the responsibility of making the posters. Duke doing the artwork would be good, but an actual picture would be better. Ask the Godwin guys if someone could be allowed to go in to get some pics of the birds. On land and in flight. Then list some facts about the birds and ask for a voluntary restraint of 2 birds.

As for those that insist on killing six all you can do is keep preaching without being a jerk and hope that this in addition to peer pressure will change their minds.

[duckmanJR]

Joey and I will get some digital photos..(real difficult...walk up to within 25 feet and take a picture:rolleyes: )

[duckmanJR]

Maybe we can make something up and laminate one for places like guana and PCS and print some flyers for the chech station guy to hand out with the permit to hunt?

[uncle D]

ATTENTION HUNTERS!!!

Back Off The Black Bellies

The Black Bellied Whistling Duck is common throughout Florida, but due to their naivety they are susceptible to hunter pressure.

United Waterfowlers-Florida is asking Florida's duckhunters to limit their take of this species.

Pictures and descriptions.

UW logo:cool:

Duke

PS Are there any others that would like to put their logo in the poster in support of this measure.

[Mehrenfl]

I like the idea of the posters. A Delta logo on there would be great. CJ, jump on this logo thing!! Free advertising:D !!

[N. Cook]

I suggest that "to two birds per day" be put in the notice. Also, a Press Release needs to be sent out as we did last year to all the publications. Duke, I will be glad to write it if you haven't or need help. I believe Kevin sent it out last year......do we have that list?

[Novalex]

I'd still like to see us support (1) one BB this season since there is no research & it's self imposed.

I'm going to run the poster idea by our (DU) area biologist.

SR said that he would allow posters at Goodwin.

I will also bring it up & RAC for their support.

Someone needs to get with Jeff Allen & Storm about Delta.

In speaking with Delta National in the past, I'm sure it's a go!!!


CJ

[D Duck]

I'd still like to see us support (1) one.... Jeff, is this to infer that you renewed your expired UW membership?

[Novalex]

The "We" I was referring to was waterfowl hunters.;)

Now for the good news!!!

I just spoke with Graig LaShack/DU Area Biologist in SC on the "self imposed" limit on the BBWD.

DU will officially support the project!!!:D

Since the Coastal Sportsmen of Florida & its guides initially requested a reduced limit on the BB, we are going to pay for (6) six corragated, waterfproof informational signs & paper flyers.

I will be meeting with our printer today with the basic information.

At this time I am placing the DU, Delta, & Coastal Sportsmen logo on the bottom of the signs.

I would like yo place the UW-F logo along side the rest of them.

We (DU/Delta) will also be asking the support of SJRWMD/RAC for their support on the project.

When SR gets back into town, I will be asking the same of them (FWC).

Duke, call me!!!
(h) 321-725-3456
(c) 321-863-9182


CJ

[duckmanJR]

I just shot a picture of joeys mounted bird for making up the poster..but if cap't Jeff is already running with this I see no need to duplicate the effort....

I also would like us to continue with "Pass on the Pins" this season.

[Novalex]

Joe,

Thanks for the pic but I gained permission & pulled a shot of a wild bird off the web.

I felt that a pic of a mounted bird would not sit well with the bunny huggers.

Before we finalize the poster & flyers, we need to agree on a self imposed daily limit.

DU & the Delta State V.P. vote for (1) one per day per hunter.

Can we get an official vote from UW-F.


CJ

[uncle D]

I don't think it will conflict w/ membership, since this has been a known issue and UW has openly suggested restraint.

As with anything, moderation is key.

Duke

P.S. Where will the posters be placed?

I would suggest where the birds frequent.

[duckmanJR]

Jeff... since it is a "self imposed" limit I have no problem with the one bird limit..

We are also asking hunters to "Pass on pins" even though they have made a nice increase in numbers (43%) ...but they still remain well below the 50 year average. We ask that unless you wish a "mounter" to please use restraint and let them return north to reproduce.

PS... I'm sure that the wild bird pic will come out better than my weak attempt at photography!:D ;)

[N. Cook]

I certainly have no problem with one or two....just trying to stay in the other "south of the border" whistleling ducks program.....and I am really pleased to see the cooperation of all the groups. UW-F has already reached agreement on a voluntary restraint now and a study asap to get an "appropriate" official limit. Therefore, we can act together promptly. NOW....lets also get some PR thoughout the state in newspapers and sports magazines. They have to have info well before the season......I would say no later than the next 10 days or so for sports editors at papers....to have it in a preseason column. It is already too late for magazines for preseason....but they could make a Dec. or Jan issue.

[duckmanJR]

Jeff...If you need a decal to scan a logo off of let me know and I'll get it to you right away.
I'm glad that D/U, Delta, and UW-F can suport this measure... :)

Certainly, Goodwin/broadmoor is one place that needs a poster...One at the Stickmarsh airboat ramp also...

[Kevin Hall]

Jeff,

I have a copy of the original digital image (UW Logo) ... If you want, I can email it to you. ;)

[Novalex]

Thanks Kevin, send it!!!

[Steve W]

If you want to put on the poster asking hunters to limit themselves to one that is fine with me too.

Also, I would be OK with UW-F sending funds to help with the cost of the posters, if other board members agree too. Unless CJ wants to just take of all the cost of that expense.

I would also like to remind all that UW-FL still does not support the idea of state imposed limits without scientific study, but that concern is for this area (Goodwin/Broadmoor) in the state which is exposed to high kill amounts on these birds.

[uncle D]

CJ,

What are the chances of DU co-oping w/ other group(s) for a study.

Duke

[BlindHog]

I would be glad to help with BBWD notices at PCS WMA. May not get over there much this season though with better water this yr in Tallahassee area. Let me know if help is needed w/poster posting, etc.

Old Phil Gargulio, the PCS check station attendant for the last 3 yrs, would likely be helpful in passing the word on the self-limit effort. He is aware of the annual take there and keeps detailed species/sex data. This could possibly allow tracking of impact of self-limit. Dont have a phone # for him. His website was linked to the FWC PCS webpage but I think its inactive now.

[BlindHog]

Correction to my last post - the guy's name is Phil Giglio and his website is still good: Alltel.net/~steward1

[Novalex]

Spoke with DE this afternoon.

Sadly, due to the commissions stance on the BBWD issue, they cannot allow us to place posters at places like Goodwin.

DE stated she did not want to send conflicting messages to the hunting public on the issue.

I advised her "we will agree to disagree" on this issue until a formal study is completed.

I personally & professionally have a hard time watching an entire family group be blown from the sky.

We can still place the flyers on vehicles & poster placement for the Fellsmere Grade area should be settled next week.


CJ

[duckmanJR]

I will gladly put a poster in the back of my truck while I'm hunting at Goodwin...... and will park where it is visable to all.... Maybe I can hang the UW-F banner across the back of the truck with it?

[over/under]

a little history read:occasion14

[David B]

Hmmmmmmmm! Good reading.

[D Duck]

Yep. Some of us have been at this a while.

[newbie2ducks]

I dont know a whole lot about hunting but where we have been setting up we see at least a couple hundred in the air at the same time! the woods just erupt with whistles. People hunt them fairly often out there shooting limits and the numbers seem to just grow. I dont know a whole lot about ducks so I am just putting in my unprofessional opinion but I dont see these ducks disappearing from the lake I hunt any time soon. good luck too all, I guess I should start targeting them less knowing all this now.

[Steve.r]

I have never had the chance to take a BBWD but I will say they are a cool looking duck, right before the season I was doing a job near a pond by a golf coarse and seen some near the water so I stop my truck to get a real good look at them ,so as I was walking over to them they just stayed there so I got closer and closer and closer , thinking to myself if I only could hunt here they would not stand a chance in ****, so I finaly got about 25 feet from them ,close enough to take pic's of them with my cell phone, when they took off the flew only about 25feet fether away, I could not beleive it but it happened , In there defence it's probley not a good Idea to take more than two of them like mentioned in the post before mine, there just flat out STUPID BIRDS.

[N. Cook]

Thanks for the HISTORIC POSTS from 2003!!!!

Shows how wrong amatuers can be about duck management!

We were genuinely concerned about the Blackbellies then.....a few had been around for some time, but it was obvious they were spreading over a larger area and it seemed you could wipe them out as they were so "dumb".

What we did not know was they reproduce like crazy and do learn to stay in large flocks that, like bait fish, use massive numbers to insure the survival of many more to breed.

Our intentions to get a new official limit of 2 failed as the expense for the agencies and the Federal bureacracy hoops were too large......THAT WAS A FORTUNATE "FAILURE"!!! Some of Florida's hunters today actually target the blackbellies for a fun hunt....and six very tasty ducks in the bag!

And they continue to grow in numbers and spread their range...

It is good to see UW-F, even in the earliest days, was very much in tune with conservation and preservation of waterfowl for the future....UW-F remains that way today and acts with much larger influence.

[GEO4DUCK]

ACTUALLY, THE PROBLEM AT sta1, ANYWAY, MIGHT BE THAT SOME "HUNTERS" ARE SHOOTING FAR MORE THAN THE 6 BIRD LIMIT, AS IN THE MAIN bb AREA, and the birds are hard to locate, as they fall----I doubt that if everyone honors the limit, that there is a problem with maintaining flock numbers, but what is returned to the check station , in our observation, may be less than the # actually shot
Then again, the rather small area of concentration of the flocks may limit the actual harvest count, as STA1b, is rather out of the area, and a good part of A, may have limited opportuntiy-------
a good area for UWF to advise on, would be the attempted long range shooting of many hunters, who wound birds and do not claim them as part of their limit

[Zack&Drake]

BBWD breed year round and I believe they will actually start to take over like they do in mexico. In the past 10 years I have watched them grow more and more each year. Thats just my opinion but they definently need to do a couple studies on them before they change anything.

[duckbone]

ACTUALLY, THE PROBLEM AT sta1, ANYWAY, MIGHT BE THAT SOME "HUNTERS" ARE SHOOTING FAR MORE THAN THE 6 BIRD LIMIT, AS IN THE MAIN bb AREA, and the birds are hard to locate, as they fall----I doubt that if everyone honors the limit, that there is a problem with maintaining flock numbers, but what is returned to the check station , in our observation, may be less than the # actually shot
Then again, the rather small area of concentration of the flocks may limit the actual harvest count, as STA1b, is rather out of the area, and a good part of A, may have limited opportuntiy-------
a good area for UWF to advise on, would be the attempted long range shooting of many hunters, who wound birds and do not claim them as part of their limit

Great points but that happens with all ducks in all area's they are hunted. wish we could do something about it but well read my sig.

[Captmako]

I only shoot hen BBWDs and they still reproduce like baitfish.

[newbie2ducks]

everywhere I read, it says its almost impossible to tell the difference from male and female, how do you know?

[Captmako]

You will get it with time.:occasion14

[pepi]

You will get it with time.:occasion14

:smileinbo:smileinbo

[Captmako]

Good points Dave, but in 2003 they were a novelty to some in central Fl... Back when Jeff posted that, he probably just started seeing them. :toothy10:

[Captmako]

Uh, Dave? Did your post get POOFED?:fart::booty:

[Converted]

I poofed myself.

I haven't been following this and I didn't realize it was from 2003 :toothy10:

Maybe I need to get one of those breathalizer things :occasion14

[Captmako]

Still celebrating from the Steelers win? :occasion14

I'm in your buddy Bobots camp. Go Packers!

It would be interesting to see you two having a Super Bowl Party together.:toothy10: