UW-F input in FWC Financing Plan

[N. Cook]

I just returned from a teleconference with Tallahassee FWC on funding problems. UW-F was invited to participate in the "interested parties" and "hunting" meetings. (hunting meeting is tomorrow nite). Obviously, we support access, less red tape and low costs, but we also have to recognize the FWC funding from huntes is dropping and even the other users, ie anglers, boaters, funds are not increasing enough to cover expenses.

There will be a need to increase fees and to add revenue streams from new fees.

I have supported adding fees to users who are not currently paying. These include:

Over 65 hunting licenses and permits exempt should pay a reduce fee ($20) for all inclusive licenses. This will also capture $8 of Federal funds for each one that we do not get now.

All users of WMAs should either pay the $3 daily fee or have a $26 WMA permit. This includes hikers, horse back riders, birders,etc, etc.

Residents bank fishing should require a fishing license.

A one dollar fee on all scuba air tank refills.

Kayaks and canoes should be registered with a small fee, ie $10.

A 10% increase in current licenses.

An ATV impact fee charged at purchase.

A new home impact fee. ( there is currently a small portion of the real estate "stamp" fee transferred to the FWC, but it is too small.)


I opposed the raising of out of state license fees more than 10% and especially opposed the idea of a special $500 tag for Osceolas. This is because other states (and most of us hunt in other states) would recipocate with very high fees on Floridians.

I also mentioned that the WMA fees were falling because of the current hunting quota system that capped the numbers of hunters allowed on the properties.

All this and the "hunting" meeting is yet to come!

I am open to comments on the stands above and any new ideas for the next meeting. REMEMBER IT IS NOT IF THERE WILL BE INCREASES BUT WHERE AND HOW MUCH. The FWC has falling revenues, despite the higher use rate of the natural resources and properties....there will be changes.

[Kevin Hall]

I still think that the 1/8 cent sales tax is the way to go ... EVERYONE will pay for for the natural resource that the state (FWC) is Constitutionally mandated to manage/protect for all Floridians, not just the hunters/fishermen.

Of course, this will either require a Legislative or Constitutional change ...

Just my $.02.

;)

[N. Cook]

A small millage tax hooked to the state sales tax was briefly mentioned. I also would have supported that but it disappeared as a topic!!! Will see about raising it again at the next meeting.

[Steve W]

I have supported adding fees to users who are not currently paying. These include:

Over 65 hunting licenses and permits exempt should pay a reduce fee ($20) for all inclusive licenses. This will also capture $8 of Federal funds for each one that we do not get now.

I agree.

All users of WMAs should either pay the $3 daily fee or have a $26 WMA permit. This includes hikers, horse back riders, birders,etc, etc.

They are supposed to be doing this now. How about the FWC patrolling the areas and issuing some tickets. That would increase the revenue.

Residents bank fishing should require a fishing license.

I guess you are referring to saltwater, because in freshwater this is already the law, unless you are using cane poles.

A one dollar fee on all scuba air tank refills.

Make it $5, they have alot of catching up to do.

Kayaks and canoes should be registered with a small fee, ie $10.

Kayaks, yes, canoes, no.

A 10% increase in current licenses.

Seems reasonable, they have not increased in a few year.

An ATV impact fee charged at purchase.

AND tack on a yearly fee.

A new home impact fee. ( there is currently a small portion of the real estate "stamp" fee transferred to the FWC, but it is too small.)

To be paid by the developer and not to be passed on to the home buyer.



Comments in red.

[ironeyes]

Seems mostly Ok but the additional impact fees on new construction arent very popular with me. Indian River county already has ridiculous impact fees on new construction which helped to price me out of the county I have called home for 24 years. If it could be paid by developers as Steve said I would be OK with that...they should be required to pay a seperate fee anyway as it is the old saying "If you build it they will come." Sales tax would be better IMHO though as EVERYONE would have to pay. Anything else singles out specific users. The burden should be shared by all who live here since every person in Florida is a consumptive user of resource somehow i.e. clearing habitat for a home, shopping center, etc.

[novaalex]

Keep on adding fees and the 35 year old father making 35K a year who wants to take his son hunting (UW's mantra) will soon not be able to and now you have another portion of those 150,000 hunters who will not renew. I think that developers are eating up our public areas at an alarming rate and they should pay fees for every huntable property that they destroy. The fees that you suggest are not unreasonable but they are unfair because it passes the cost to those who have the least instead of those who are responsible for the catastrophic decline in public areas. While we're at it how soon before someone suggests that we pay more than we are already paying to hunt ducks. Lake O and KissPUA public usage fee 10.00/day. Everglades 15.00/day, STA's 50.00/day. We may be opening Pandora's box and some of those who so strongly support us may be hung out to dry. As far as me personally charge whatever you want just do not restrict my access or right to hunt!

[N. Cook]

Alex, you are on the right track.....if we do not get the funding from the other users it will all fall back on us.....ie..the fees you mention for hunting the STAs etc. Every dollar we can collect from the other users will be a dollar less from hunters.

The impact fees on developers would be very helpful as well as a small millage on the current state sales tax......but do not be fooled...the developers do not pay anything...it is just a cost they pass on to the home buyer....and the sales tax will be paid by all, including us. Like any business, the developers add up their costs.....put on a profit margin and go to the bank...nice!!!!

The stategy is to pass as much of the coming increases to a broad spectrum of "payers" versus we few hunters (150,000 in a population of 17 million).

[Novalex]

Require O/B motors be registered, maybe $10.00

Other states do it & it cuts down on motor thefts.

[N. Cook]

I lived in Ohio and they registered the motors, but not the boats up to 14 feet.....Incidentally, there was a proposal to have an annual "guide" fee that was substantial, plus requiring a course and certificate for all guides that also had a fee.....plus charging any guide using public land an additional fee....I did not support it.....you owe me a free spot on that dove field!!!!!!
Newton

[SSPhone]

The solve for all the money we need is a 0.10 toll to come down I-75 from Ga.
There has to be 100,000 cars thru there every couple of hours. Maybe I-95 also

[Converted]

FYI
Hunting license fees have not gone up in Florida since 1979, I'm generally opposed to new or increased government fees but it is about time for a COLA.

Be careful about wanting everyone else to pay "their fair share" Keep in mind that those who pay for the majority will have more influence. Do we want bird watchers paying more and having more influence than hunters? :rolleyes:

[Wilbur]

Right now hunters and fishermen foot the majority of the funding. I feel if you live in Florida you should contribute to something that you have access to weather you use it or not. Just my opinion... and we know what they're like!

[jtlillia]

I Agree Totally. Everyone Else In This State Rides On Hunters And Fisherman's Backs. They All Get Free Rides. Many Of The Wma Are Closed Most Of The Hunting Season To Us. But Open To The People Who Do Not Drop A Dime. We Are The Ones That Are Always Doing Everything To Preserve The Land And Resources. All Of The Major Conservation Orginizations In The Country Are Hunting Based.

[Kevin Hall]

Actually ....

From the financial numbers that we were shown by Ken Haddad at the FOH Summit ... hunters & fishermen supply a small percentage of the funds to FWC. The majority of FWC's budget comes from the state government.

On a different subject ...

The 1/8 cent sales tax would completely fund FWC to the tune of about $350 million a year!

One point to consider ... Just how much money is FWC spending on "non-game" wildlife? (ie. bears, manatees, scrub-jays, etc.) That should be the burden of all society ... not just the consumptive users.

[DuckManDan]

The 1/8 cent sales tax increase doesn't seem to bother me at all. Making others that enjoy WMA seems like another great idea. The idea of placing a $50 fee for hunting the STA's makes me want to throw up. The idea of requiring saltwater bank fishermen to have a licience is another great idea. A land impact fee is just goin to jack the home prices up even higher. I live in South Florida and its in possible to find a house in a nice area under $300k. I am a 18 year old college that is still living at home and already making plans to head north to lower house prices.

The cost of hunting and fishing is aready high enough as it. The increase of costs will discourage alot of folks from enjoying them. Think about how much money you actually spend during duck season. Shells, permits, gas to get you to your location, tolls, clothing....... Last year I spent upwards of $500 and only hunted 6 DAYS!!! It may not seem that much to you but as a high school student making $6 an hour it was tough. Have you ever seen the commercials "Take a kid hunting or fishing" pretty soon it will cost to much. When I was younger fishing and hunting kept me either with a rod or shotgun in my hand and in the outdoors instead of on the streets doing drugs and getting into trouble.

[novaalex]

Dan you made no mention of your family but I applaud the fact that you are 18 and you work and go to school and still try to set money aside for our sport. I do not support a $50permit fee for any hunting area, but it may happen. Would you be able to spend $300 extra in addition to the $500 you will spend again this year to hunt the 6 days? Pass the cost on to those who are responsible for destroying the environment. Hunting is part of our human heritage and as long as there is a place to hunt there will be an FWC. We have to continue to fight for the places, because the costs and rules will not matter if there is no place to hunt. You want to attract people? Offer quality places to hunt. Why have duck stamp sales not gone down? Because there are places to hunt ducks!

[Novalex]

I lived in Ohio and they registered the motors, but not the boats up to 14 feet.....Incidentally, there was a proposal to have an annual "guide" fee that was substantial, plus requiring a course and certificate for all guides that also had a fee.....plus charging any guide using public land an additional fee....I did not support it.....you owe me a free spot on that dove field!!!!!!
Newton

Other than the additional fees (they already charge us $200.00 a year), I would support an additional course for guides.

To get a state license a guide should be able to provide the following:

1) USCG Capt's License
2) Liability Insurance, minimum $300,000
3) Occupational License
4) Annual Inspection of Boats due to the extra gear required
5) Be enrolled in random drug testing


I've got a great deal for you on the dove field Newton, only $225.00 just for you. :smileinbo

[DUCKWHACKER]

Kevin makes a good point concerning non-game species. A ton of money goes for animals off limits to sportsmen. Natural resources are an important asset to ALL Floridians, and the coffers should be bolstered by everyone.

[Phil T]

What is the breakdown of various users on WMA's? I'm concerned that if a user fee is charged/enforced for all users and hunters are a minority we could find ourselves voted out. The 1/8 cent tax seems the way to go, it's not the same as reaching into your pocket for cash to the average person, I know I pay multiple taxes that I'm not aware of. It's no different than the taxes we all pay for public schools, everyone pays whether they have children in the public shools or whether they have children at all. I also support an impact fee on new development, it would be a small percentage of the cost passed on to buyers and virtually unnoticed with the skyrocketing property values. I'm not opposed to increased license fees either but once I've paid for my license I should not have to pay additional fees to use it on public lands.

In my opinion, once I have paid for a hunting/fishing license I should be permitted access to all public lands/waters per the established seasons.

[duckmanJR]

I like the 1/8 cent tax.



David, the # given by the state about how many people are bird watchers ( non consumtive et al) are total BS! They have a poll and ask......
When outdoors do you
A) hunt
B) hike
C) bird watch
D) canoe

Joe and jill average HAVE NEVER been to a WMA.... but because they drive down a country road and saw a Cardinal..they are bird watchers :rolleyes:

I also don't like what I heard about Haddad's closing statement at the summit...he does not sound like he is in the "right camp".

[Keith Yates]

What about a tax for all gas sold at marinas. That money should go back into the resource.

[DUCKWHACKER]

Yeah DuckmanJr, that survey was a little skewed. If you see a woodpecker while sittin' in your treestand your a bird watcher. If ya have a birdfeeder in your backyard your a bird watcher, etc, etc, etc. Maybe Ken could have expressed his thoughts a little more positive towards hunters. To me he basically said (this is my interpatation) " you guys are asking for more? Your lucky to have what you've got now." :rolleyes:

[duckmanJR]

Mike...That's basicly what I drew from his comment...Instead of recognizing both the problem..and possible fixes he sounded like we are "more bother than we are worth" I got a news flash for Ken.... birdwatchers and hikers and canoers DON'T PAY HIS SALARY...HUNTERS AND FISHERMAN ARE THE ONLY REASON HE HAS A JOB!!

[DUCKWHACKER]

From what I understand Joe, he was in the FWC marine division here in St Petersburg. Not exactly a hunting hotbed :rolleyes: If Ken was trying to win the popular vote from a room full of hunters that night he failed in my eyes. Not mant good words for his constituants. Hopefully he researches his job description and sees the part that says we hunters are the reason WMA's exist. We may not foot 100% of the FWC budget, but no other user group contributes squat besides hunters and fisherman. I've never seen a bird watchers, manatee, OHV or tree huggers license. :rolleyes:

[DuckManDan]

NOVAALEX, I forgot to menting I am the only outdoors man in my family but one day down the road when I start a family I would like to take my kid hunting. Thanks if I can afford it and there is area to hunt.

Today I saw a site that made my gut wrench. I do not know if anyone is familiar with the Parkland West Boca area along Lox road. For those that are they know the cow pasture 1 1/2 to 2 miles from the end. I spotted a doe and a fawn out grazing in that pasture and knowing that pretty soon that field will be turned into $500,000 - $1,000,000 houses really ticks me off. I have heard a few others that have also spotted hogs and other deer out there as well and now its goin to be nieghborhood.

By the way......Thanks to all that have finally got STA 3/4 open to the public....I have driven by for years hoping to one day be able to shoot ducks there....those ducks better watch out now

[Steve W]

I would not mind paying a ONE TIME fee to register boat motors, then anytime it changes ownership.

But to require it year after year, like boats, trailers and cars is silly.

As a matter of fact it is silly for boats, cars and trailers.

A one time registration, so the authorities know who it is supposed to belong to is fine, same with canoes and kayaks.

If you get rid of the yearly fees you can also get rid of a few very rude people in the tag agencies.

Hmmm, maybe I will suggest this to my state senator and congressman.

[DUCKWHACKER]

Sorry Steve, the government agencies will never kill the cash cow. I think the vehicle inspections was the sacrificial lamb and the rest are here to stay. :rolleyes:

[RutnNStrutn]

Newton, there is definitely a need to increase fees, and add new ones!
The state is rapidly becoming overcrowded, and throngs of people are looking for places to recreate. The only ones paying to recreate are the hunters and fishermen, and that needs to change.
The elderly need to pay, albeit at a reduced rate. No more free rides, except for kids who are our future. Hook them now, they'll pay later!! :icon_twis
Anyone who uses a WMA should pay for it. Fishermen, hikers, bikers, equestrians, birdwatchers, cyclists, and all other types of tree huggers should have to pay to use the lands and waters. Currently, the hunters are footing the bill for that.
Bank fishermen need to pay too. Why not? They are recreating, and depleting a resource. Charge them too.
Scuba divers use the waters, deplete the resources, impact the boat ramps that have to be maintained, and pollute. Charge them too!!
Kayaks and canoes? Register them with a moderate fee.
A 10% increase in current licenses? Sure, why not. A COLA as stated before.
An ATV impact fee? Excellent idea!!! Those guys are tearing up the woods, and displacing hunters.
A new home impact fee? Darn skippy!!! More people moving here means more people recreating on the lands and waters. Charge them too.
Non-resident fees need to be raised in accordance with the rates they charge Florida hunters. A $500 non-resident Osceola tag is ridiculous, and would back fire on Florida hunters that hunt out of state. The place to make up the difference is in non-resident fishing licenses. Of course the guides that make a living off of these people will oppose that, but the non-residents heavily impact our waters. Currently, non-residents only pay $16.50 for a 7 day freshwater fishing license. This is what most vacationing fisherman pay. A mere $16.50 for recreating on our waters and impacting them and the boat ramps and the roads. :rolleyes: The annual license for non-residents is only $31.50. This is a drop in the bucket for border dwellers who cross the line regularly and fish here. Non-resident fishing licenses should match the non-resident hunting licenses in the states our visitors come from. Florida hunters generally pay over $200 to hunt out of state, be it for 3 days or a year. They stick it to FLA hunters, we should stick it to their fisherman. This is a cash cow that the state is not milking!!
We need to make money off of the people that are recreating and impacting without paying for their share.

[Randy Clark]

steve why kayaks and not canoes just wondering thats my kids way of getting out to lake brantleydrags the kayak on a skate board. i agree with most of it but also feel we need to remember the guy with less income and kids who need every thing and want to hunt and fish another 10 for a kayak may not sound like much until you throw it on top of all the other bills

[D Duck]

I disagree with a couple of these. First, canoes and kayaks (any unmotorized boat) should not require registration - more of a headache and cost for the state and the individual than it would be worth. Second, boat motors - we're already registering our boats, registering the motor seems a little redundant and more paperwork for the state (read cost). Third, do the scuba divers not already have to purchase a license? Why should they have to pay to fill tanks - or should these be registered too? I'm all about funding the resource, but keep gov't out of it as much as possible - no need to register everything under the sun with the state, rather look into the revenues generated through fee increases.

[N. Cook]

Don't disagree....but the fact is more money is going to be collected...it can either be all in hunting licesnse and WMA permit fees or spread around to other sources. Registering canoes and kayaks with a annual $10 "conservation" sticker only, no numbers, will be quick money....all new funds.....same for requiring WMA permits for all users or really enforcing the $3 daily fee. Same for requiring old folks like me to cough up a $20 all inclusive hunting/fishing/wma fee and get another $8 from the feds...all new funds. Same for making bank fisherman buy a fishing license....all new funds....its either them or us.

[duckmanJR]

Newton, Your reply makes perfect sense... Make all the "free rides" pay! I'm not talking break the bank fees... Reasonable is the key.
New revenue streams are the key...falling interest in hunting just means that the stream will get smaller as more fall away from our sport.... If hunters alone have to fund FFWC we will each be paying $100,000 for licenses and stamps!


I still like the 1/8 cent tax which would provide tons of money and would make ALL floridians responsible for OUR wildlife.

[Keith Yates]

Don't take me wrong here guys but the vast majority of man days on WMA's come from hunters(who already pay there fair share). If the iron ramgers are used to collect fee's in most cases FWC would be loosing monies do to it takes 2 FWC folks to collect. I would say a non consumptive permit of some kind should be required to enjoy the WMA's. The legislature would have a hard time passing this due to most of the monies used come from doc stamp fee's collected when someone buys a house or property.