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08-10-2005, 09:06 AM
Everglades Coordinating Council
Bullet Points
Future of Hunting in FL Summit

Everglades Coordinating Council delegates and affiliate membership:

The following are a list of “bullet points” that were compiled by ECC delegates based upon knowledge of issues, extensive discussion, and input from affiliate membership. They are being provided as suggestions for your consideration when developing input for the breakout sessions and other hunting summit forums.

1. Recruiting and Retaining Hunters:

a) Liberal public access, including vehicular access, and camping are vital to recruiting and retaining hunters.

b) Establish regulated “passive” ORV use without prejudice for use for hunting, with special accommodations for senior hunters.

c) Hunter education and youth camp programs should emphasize hunting as being an exciting and enjoyable experience, rather than simply a tool for conservation.

d) “Multi-use and land stewardship” rather than “environmental sensitivity” should be emphasized in hunter education classes.

e) Urge industry, sportsmen’s associations, and individual hunters to support Boy Scout and other youth programs that promote hunting and shooting sports.

f) State agencies, industry, and sportsmen’s groups should sponsor off-season field trips for diverse family-oriented groups (religious, civic, and political organizations) to hunting areas, simulating hunting by showing them tracks, feeding signs, rubs and scrapes, and other game sign.

g) Promote and provide facilities for youths to learn and develop shooting and archery skills.

h) FWC and sportsmen’s groups should issue press releases drawing positive attention to hunters’ good deeds (cleanups; tree planting; volunteering for civic projects) so that non-hunters will be drawn to the culture.

i) Eliminate the quota system to allow for spontaneity in planning that is necessary for recruiting and retaining hunters.

j) Continue to strive to make the licensing process easier.

k) Public hunting areas should be managed to the extent to accommodate regional hunting customs and techniques.

l) Provide a user-friendly web site, “Where to Hunt” with interactive GIS-driven data delivery on Public and Private lands.


2. Increasing Access and Opportunities for Hunting on Public Land:

a) Educate agency staff and the public about impacts The Wildlands Project has already had on access to public lands, hunting traditions, and license sales, as well as its long term goals for removing all human access to and enjoyment of Florida’s lands.

b) Address public concerns that “Ecological network” as explained in FL Comprehensive Wildlife Conservation Strategy (CWCS) is another term for The Wildlands Project.

c) Inventory all state lands for existing uses and evaluate them for hunting opportunities.

d) Encourage state land managing agencies (the five Water Management Districts, DOF, and DEP) to allow FWC to conduct hunts on more of their lands.

e) Simplify regulations and the process for obtaining licenses and quotas.

f) Eliminate or dramatically increase quotas.

g) As the “Purpose” of a land acquisition determines the level of recreational use it receives, reauthorize an improved FL Forever land acquisition program that clearly defines multi-use recreation including hunting and fishing and passive ORV access as a purpose of public land acquisition. (“No plan; no land.”)

h) Prevent transfer of any more state or Water Management District lands and waters to the federal government, and do not enter into cooperative state/federal agreements that have strings attached that will reduce or restrict access and multi-use recreation, including hunting, fishing, and vehicular access.

i) Seek official definition of:

a. “Incompatible recreation”
b. “Recreation consistent with the purpose of the acquisition”
c. “Access” (See recommended language below.)

j) Area to be hunted must be readily accessibly by ordinary vehicles for walk in areas and still hunt areas (e.g. parking within ½ to 1 mile of hunt area. More remote areas must be designated for passive ORV access by well-defined routes providing access to within easy walking range to the entire land unit.

k) Areas to be hunted must be accessible by age and disability impacted hunters.

l) Areas to be hunted must be open for scouting and other off-season activities.

m) Public hunting areas should be managed to accommodate regional hunting customs and techniques.

n) Set up a working group of public and private land managers and sportsmen to determine what has been done successfully in other states to increase access and opportunities on public lands.

3. Increasing Access and Opportunities for Hunting on Private Lands

a) Mitigation banks should include multi-use recreation, including hunting.

b) Explore the possibility of mitigation banks being managed by contiguous landowners as extensions of existing hunting leases.

c) Less than fee conservation easements which include public hunting have a greater public value than non-hunting conservation easements, and should be compensated at a higher value.

d) Agricultural activities should be timed so as not to conflict with prime hunting dates.

e) Set up a working group of public and private land managers and sportsmen to determine what has been done successfully in other states to increase access and opportunities on private lands.

4. Strengthen the Foundations of Ethics and Conservation

a) The term “ethics” applies to social/curtsey issues as well as illegal acts; these distinctions must be clearly defined if “ethics” is to be effectively addressed.

b) Unreasonable regulations and over concentration of access generates resentment and creates conflicts that lead to lapses in ethics.

c) Sportsmen’s organizations must educate and police their own members; peer pressure works.

d) Implement a media campaign to:

1. Improve non-hunter’s image of hunters.
2. Encourage ethical hunting practices.
3. Promote FWC’s Wildlife Alert Program.
4. Implement a litter education campaign to address trash left at access sites/landings and camping areas.
5. Assertively respond to anti-use campaigns of misinformation, and educate the public that anti-use extremist groups are targeting all human uses, not just hunting.

5. Building a Unified and Politically Strong Coalition of Hunting Organizations:

a) Build on the fact that Allied Sportsmen’s Associations of Florida is already recognized by the state and congressional sportsmen’s caucuses as the sportsmen’s political umbrella.

b) Convene an annual meeting of hunting club leaders and public and private land managers from throughout the state to meet, network, and discuss issues.

c) Establish a funding source for the Florida Legislative Congressional Caucus so that state legislators who support hunting can use the funds to attend meetings, educational forums, and field trips.

d) Support state and local candidates who will appoint pro-hunting individuals to head regional and state agencies and to serve on regional and state advisory committees.

e) Sportsmen must volunteer to serve on advisory committees to advocate hunting interests.

f) Monitor and participate in the actions of the following positions and agencies: Governor and Board of Trustees (Cabinet)

1. FL Department of Environmental Protection
2. Acquisition and Restoration Council (ARC)
3. The five Water Management Districts
4. FL Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC)
5. FL Department of Forestry
6. Department of Interior (NPS/USFWS)
7. Marine Sanctuaries
8. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

novaalex
08-10-2005, 10:21 AM
1. Recruiting and Retaining Hunters:

a) Liberal public access, including vehicular access, and camping are vital to recruiting and retaining hunters.
That has been a huge source of controversy! So let me get this right UW-F and the ECC supports a hunter's right to camp.

b) Unreasonable regulations and over concentration of access generates resentment and creates conflicts that lead to lapses in ethics.
1a and 3b are conflicting. If regulations are more reasonable then we will have even greater access which will create more resentment which will lead to more allegations of possible lapses in ethics.

i) Eliminate the quota system to allow for spontaneity in planning that is necessary for recruiting and retaining hunters.
j) Continue to strive to make the licensing process easier.

Eliminating the current system may make licensing easier because everybody will just kill each other on their way to the check station.

Just my .02!

Mehrenfl
08-10-2005, 10:36 AM
Great ideas!! A lot of thought went into that list!!

DUCKWHACKER
08-10-2005, 01:07 PM
That list contains many excellent ideas. I'm gonna print it and bring a copy to the summit.

N. Cook
08-10-2005, 01:59 PM
As part of the coalition, UW-F does not have to support every item but we do have a lot in common and most are right on target.

Remember the purpose of the Summit is to determine a way to replace 100,000 lost Florida hunters asap to keep the FWC hunting agency viable versus the other user groups.

The actual UW-F position statement was published and approved months ago....The first section is on waterfowling and follows our regular agenda. The second is on other hunting, the major part of which is the ending of quotas and the establishing of PUBLIC LAND HUNTING PERMITS in lieu of the WMA permits. The idea is to get all public land across the state (with north and south division) open for the same days for seasons and an annual bag limit on deer and turkey using a tag system, total days and limits to be determined by the biologists. This system is used by larger populous states with hundreds of thousands of hunters in the field opening day of deer gun season.....WE NEED THAT LICENSE MONEY AND MUST MAKE THE "PRODUCT" MORE ATTRACTIVE. The experience is that the crowds soon thin and a more quality situation develops for the large part of the seasons. Also, areas that attract a large crowd one year will be avoided the next and a general leveling occurs over a few years as people begin to hunt nearer to home. The bow, muzzle loading seasons remain with little change....

This means MANAGING THE RESOURCE AND NOT THE PEOPLE.

Private land regulations are so tied up in politics little can be done and they are not going to allow a horde of 100,000 new hunters on their properties or leases in any case.

novaalex
08-10-2005, 02:04 PM
When it comes to deer hunting in Florida it serves no purpose to change the sytem in the southern part of the State because we really don't have a quality deer herd. Actually the season should be closed for that herd to increase in numbers and quality for a few years followed by a liberal doe hunt to allow a good product for years to come. Lets not lose perspective here folks you cannot compare Florida to other states because we are the redheaded step child of hunting with the exception of waterfowl and hogs! No comment on Section 1A?

N. Cook
08-10-2005, 02:51 PM
The pool of "customers" from which the 100,000 we need to sell is those many hunters who travel "up north" to hunt because "it is too hard and complicated to find a place to hunt in Florida". They do not buy Florida licenses. If we do not get the license sales back up to at least 250,000 soon there will be no viable way the state can support 4 million acres of WMAs for hunting. The other user groups are outnumbering the hunters and they do not like to be on the WMAs with "guns". There are 17 million people in FL. and growing.....political clout of 150,000 is zip.

I understand south Florida will not support a large deer herd....and you can bet not very many will be traveling from anywhere else in Florida to come here.... There is a natural leveling.

If anyone else can show me 100,000 customers ready to "buy" and a way to get their business in a hurry....I am all for it.

novaalex
08-10-2005, 03:23 PM
Has it ever crossed anybody's mind that those 100k lost hunters are just tired of hunting public land in Florida because of all the jealousy, allegations, and BS that is involved. I'll bet you that a % of those lost now have private leases and another % has given up Florida all together and takes their money on guided hunts elsewhere. The majority of people I know in SFl don't waste their time hunting deer here they lease elsewhere or plan trips to Iowa, Wyoming, Texas, etc. I think that most of the problems associated with hunting public land are caused by those who hunt the land! Those are the ones that go running to the powers that be with false accusations every time things don't go their way! The ECC and all other stakeholders face a long hard battle.

darkwing duck
08-10-2005, 04:58 PM
Most people go north to hunt deer because " THE DEER ARE BIGGER IN THE NORTH " We do not and will never have the deer herd that the north has mostly do to climate and terrain.

Do away with the QUOTA SYSTEM and you will do away with hunting in Florida period. Let's see here what is better a some what controled system or a FREE for ALL. I'll take a somewhat quota system over fighting for even 1 spot in an area any time that I can. I say lets all tell everyone where we hunt our own little private ducks at and see how we feel when evey TOM, DICK, and HARRY shows up in our spot day after day. Let's all give up at least 1 GPS cord to a honeyhole and see how long it takes before the well runs dry. NEWTON you go first seeing as how you profess that this is the way to go. open it all up and lets run wild. GO NEWTON GO NEWTON :icon_salu :icon_salu

Lets see some proof that you are behind your words as well as actions. GIVE UP 1 GPS CORD and lets see how brave you are to give up a honeyhole

N. Cook
08-10-2005, 05:17 PM
When I first proposed this several years ago it was met with some awfully "nice" e mails from as far away as S. Dakota!!! But I have been suprised going into this meeting how many have come to the same conclusion. As long as we have had "quota" hunts growing into so large a percentage of hunting on the WMAs....almost all are now on a quota system....license sales have dropped like a rock. The total number of deer permits statewide in the Regular Quota hunts (all methods, bow, ml and reg. gun) is 36518 per year. ( I have three of them...how many do you have...thus farther reducing the number of licensed hunters!!!) 6750 of these are on Big Cypress!!! and only four WMAs account for 16400. Leaving a precious few for the other hundred or so WMAs.

So....you have just limited license sales to less that 40,000 for any one looking to hunt on the larger sections of public land in the state. How are you going to get 100,000 more people to buy licenses they can't use?

Incidentally, the FWC reports those 6750 permits on Big Cypress accounted for a whopping 235 deer killed. Obviosly, the system is not adding any "quality" either.

Those who complain about "crowds" work the system....don't blame them so do I...but we must look at the bigger picture... if we don't get a couple hundred thousand hunters in the field opening day of deer season each year very soon the WMAs simply will become parks for the "non consumptive" users.

novaalex
08-10-2005, 05:48 PM
Everybody works the system only some are honest about, some are secretive yet respectful, and some throw rocks and hide their hands. In issue that has not been addressed is the amount of deer that are poached all over the state and how that affects the population because we don't have enough FWC officers doing something about it. I see the trucks parked on isolated canals all over the Glades. They're not fishing! The argument for eliminating the quota system to increase opportunity is a fallacy. The opportunity is there you do not need a quota to hunt deer in Fl. By eliminating the quota you will lose control and what we need is more control. CLOSE SFL TO DEER HUNTING FOR 2 YEARS, LET THE DEER HERD GROW, CULL THE CRAPPY DOES, AND THEN OPEN IT UP! Gps cords anytime I'll be the first to give, take somebody to one of my honeyholes in the Glades and I won't ask anything in return because I know where they hunt and I know somebody that will take me. This year the gang will be coming to a honey hole near you. KPUA, LOX, MINWR, GARCIA, FELSMERE, PHOSPHATE OCCIDENTAL, LAKE SEMINOLE, we don't mind driving! Plus we will dominate the Southern portion of the state because most are not willing to sacrifice!

Wilbur
08-10-2005, 05:51 PM
I no longer hunt deer on WMA's because of all the red tape and bs associated with the permit process. The WMA I used to hunt is now one you pay the FWC a couple of hundred bucks to hunt. Why is that, you might ask? Because they almost lost the property for lack of funding. Alot of the WMA's are leased by the state, from timber companies etc., and charging a fee to hunt it made it where they could still have it available to hunt. If we dont have enough people in the system to make it work it might happen in other areas too. I agree with the idea that more people hunting will open more land. and in time will disperse the crowds.

jtlillia
08-10-2005, 05:51 PM
The Quota System Is Not Too Bad. The Issue Is We Have To Increase The Public Hunting Oppurtunities. Deer Hunting Will Never Be Like Up North But We Can Still Have Quality Deer Hunting. The Fwc Has To Increase Food Plots And Other Deer Management Tools. Florida Also Has Great Waterflowling And Turkey Hunting. The Fwc Could Do More To Increase Small Game Oppurtunities. I Know Alot Of States Have Game Farms That Release Birds Every Year For Public Hunting. Some People Don't Like It, But It Gives People To Hunt Pheasants,quail And Chukars Who Otherwise Would Not.

Converted
08-10-2005, 06:23 PM
First we must agree... is there a problem?

100,000 fewer hunters... "GREAT that's fewer guys I have to compete with"

But........ that's a 100,000 fewer people to pay the bills for the hunting section at FWC. If that number continues to fall there may not be a hunting section at the FWC. If we want to continue what we do, we had better get more people into the sport of Florida hunting. Strength is in numbers. It doesn't matter if you want to look at it from the selfish position or the greater good position, FLORIDA NEEDS MORE HUNTERS.

More hunters will put on the political pressure to keep public lands open to hunting and open new public lands to hunting.

There is no mistake, THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING!
That's kinda hard for some of us to admit. We know how to work the system. Most on this board have good productive hunts in Florida. Unfortunately, 100,000 of our brothers have decided the current system is not worth the trouble.

What's the solution? That's what the Summit is trying to investagate. Maybe quota hunts can be replaced with a tag system. I know this is not Pennsylvania but they put 1,000,000 hunters in the woods on the opening day of deer season and the season lasts 9 days. Maybe the answer for Florida is somewhere in between 4 deer per day for a 4 month season to 4 deer per season for a 2 month season on public ground. There may be a ton of opposition to any and all of these ideas. In the end, I hope everyone can agree that the existing system is not working (even if it works for me) and we all need to come up with a solution. Or... our days are numbered :tard:

darkwing duck
08-10-2005, 06:27 PM
You all still missing the big picture here and that is EDUCATION of our youth. We must get the youth of tomorrow involved and believe me there is a cry from them for this. Television and video games have corrupted the youth of tomorrow. We need to get involved with our children and grandchildren and introduce them to the outdoors. Quit letting society do this for you. Take time out of your daily schedule and spend some time with your kids and the neighberhood kids. You will be surprised how many are looking for a NEW EXPERIENCE. Take a kid shooting with you, or just fishing or a boat ride. Kids are looking for a new avenue of fun and we can give it to them if we just open our hearts and eyes and get more involved in their DAILY LIVES.

Lets start a new org and deal strictly with the youth and maybe everyone here will be shocked and you will see that this is a good start and a much needed organization that needs to be started.

Wilbur
08-10-2005, 06:42 PM
I agree with you on that. Our youths are our future and I've said it alot! One thing to remember is that the under 16 crowd has no record of furnishing revenue (no liscense).

novaalex
08-10-2005, 06:48 PM
The FWC makes money hand over fist! This year I bought my WMA permit but I am not allowed on Everglades Francis Taylor for no good reason. Nobody is patrolling it so they obviously are not spending the money that I gave them for a license I may not even use. In addition to that Florida is changing more of us are becoming more affluent and we don't need public hunting whether it is through advancement, investment, promotion, or inheritance we are getting richer. THe FWC are public servants as their constituents we must keep them honest. Try forcing them to open the Evergaldes if you want me to believe your argument about them folding. They are plenty strong. What we need to do is focus on the politicians and send money their way so that we can have things our way. Isn't that how DU has had so much success. Start a new org. that can take hard and soft money and put it to use. Last but not least UW has to become more regionalized. Every time I hear " Well Alex you hunt this place a lot and you know the people and you know what happens" it makes me sick. If I know so much then let me manage the frickin area and stay the **** away! Make your neck of the woods better. Prove to me that we are good and not lucky because of the Everglades Restoration. Politicians created this project not the FWC, those are the people we have to deal with!

N. Cook
08-10-2005, 07:04 PM
Those of us who hunt envarilbly try to bring in our kids and even a friend or two....that is what has held the base at where it is today....but one kid at a time, although very comendable will not get the 100,000, as we old folks die off or can't hunt.....we basically have been replacing the core....and if a father quits hunting in FL because of all the red tape, there goes not only him but the next generation, etc. What is really bad is the number of hunters moving to Florida each year and just give up and end up going "back home" if they hunt at all. Out of the millions who have moved here in the last 10 years there must be many thousands of these out of state hunters. We need to get them hunting in FL.

Incidentally, duck hunting is not in the decline....total duck stamps sold each year for the last ten years fluctuate from 15 to 19 thousand or so and are about the same last year as ten years ago. Why.....because, other than a few "quota" places, ie MINWAR and Goodwin and the STAs, the swamps are open to all and anyone can find a spot near home on public land on any given morning even if not on one of the quota places.

As long as the FWC spends so much effort managing people and not managing the resorce...ie planting food plots, burning etc...the "quality" will continue to be poor. The FWC reported a total harvest of 3457 deer on about 4 million acres of "managed" WMAs last year......KEEP TELLING ME THIS IS A GOOD PROGRAM~~~~A good 1200 acre lease IN FLORIDA properly managed will give up a dozen good bucks each year! There are counties with a larger deer harvest than 4 million acres produced in all of FL....and that includes North FL that does have good habitat.

You cannot dispute the facts, the system has been a disaster. Get the FWC folks out of the check stations and onto tractors planting millet and out burning!

novaalex
08-10-2005, 07:25 PM
The DUCK SYSTEM IS FINE AND THAT IS THE ONE THAT NOBODY SHOULD BE MESSING WITH, REMEMBER BULLET 1A CAMPING IS VITAL! MANAGE THE RESOURCE, SHUT IT DOWN FOR A SEASON OR TWO AND THE RESOURCE WILL IMPROVE AS FAR AS DEER IS CONCERNED, UP THE AMOUNT OF QUOTAS!

RutnNStrutn
08-10-2005, 07:47 PM
Youth are the future. Indeed!!
There is no future without opportunity. Excellent!
It sounds as though those are the best places to start. You can't argue with that, no matter what your opinion is on quota hunts or other issues.

N. Cook
08-10-2005, 07:56 PM
There is no intention to change the duck hunting regulations.....they are the only ones holding the number of hunters each year with no decline. There will always be tight control on the STAs due to the filtration mandate (we are very lucky to have access at all!) and some areas such as Goodwin will utilize some sort of numbers and days management.....not a problem as there are many open marshes nearby for anyone not able to get a permit.

We do have to work hard to be sure the many thousands of acres of new Reservoirs for Everglades restoration are opened without permits or restrictions.

novaalex
08-11-2005, 08:26 AM
All of the bullets that are being presented have merit. I do not agree with abolishing the quota system, but I did not join UW to fight for deer hunting. If I deer hunt it will be on private land. It is my opinion that we as an organization of and for duck hunters have enough to worry about. We need to channel our collective and individual energies towards our stated mission and name. Since when did we become a deer hunting organization. Why don't we make sure that the Everglades are open, that 10,000 NWR is open, that the teal and regular season are seperate, that STA2 is open for dove and duck, that the CERP43 project is open off of SR80 and US29, that all of the lands purchased by local government are being used. We have enough to worry about for such a small organization. Remember one thing one NO can ruin a lifetime of YES's. Focus on duckhunting because Florida is not a deerhunting state. Last but not least most kids are introduced to hunting with doves, why not create more quality opportunities for dove. It is by far the easiest to manage?

N. Cook
08-11-2005, 08:52 AM
Alex is right....dove leads into duck hunting and we have been trying to get the SFWMD to open some areas as Small Game Hunting Areas. Still resistance without FWC presence.

UW-F will be concentrating on duck hunting at the Summit. However, since we were one of a few groups invited to be on the Steering Committee, a broader statement had to be put together covering Hunting in Florida. As part of the ECC we also are a part of a larger submission of ideas. (We are not required to support every one.)

Every Reply on this string has merit and all will be considered as discussions develop at the Summit. We may not have a consensus on everything, but the general feeling of more opportunity for young people and new hunters to enter the sport and the need to make it easier to find a place to hunt near home without a lot of red tape and expense is obvious.

Converted
08-11-2005, 08:57 AM
Alex,
UW-F is a duck hunt hunting organization. The ECC bullet points are not the UW-F bullet points. They were posted for information. Individual UW-F directors that attend the summit are free to express their personal opinion about any subject that comes up. We are not going to get the 100,000 hunters back in the form of waterfowlers. As has been stated there are less than 20,000 migratory bird stamp holders in the State.

UW-F will not be presenting position statements on anything but waterfowling or the general principles of increased access to public lands. The talk about quota hunts is not related to waterfowling (remember the LONG term goal is to have all of the CERP projects open 7 days a week after all construction is over (2025) and we would hope that folks could spread out enough that permits would no longer be needed.)

UW-F members may be presenting many positions on deer hunting and other subjects as participants of the summit :icon_salu

novaalex
08-11-2005, 09:02 AM
Is the little yellow guy saluting or flipping me off? I want to make sure I use it correctly.

Converted
08-11-2005, 09:06 AM
:icon_salu or :jerk: Hmmmm :icon_salu

DUCKWHACKER
08-11-2005, 09:37 AM
All I know is it's one hour and fifteen minutes til I hit the door for O Town. Bass Pro Shops and then the Rosen Centre. :)

Wilbur
08-11-2005, 03:40 PM
Hey, if any of ya'll take a laptop with you please keep the rest of us informed on what and how things are going. Thanks to all those attending, it is greatly appreciated. :icon_salu (this one is saluting)

Converted
08-12-2005, 05:52 AM
UW-F is very well represented. Attending are:
Newton Cook
Phil Harper
Mike Kuhn
Kevin Hall
Ron Bloomquist
Chris Chesley
Dave Lithgow

This is the place to be for sure. The reception went very well and UW-F was out and about "working the crowd". Today we get into the meetings and speakers. I'll make a report this evening :icon_salu

jtlillia
08-12-2005, 06:03 AM
I Want To Thank All Of You Have Taken The Time To Attend The Meeting And Make Our Voices Be Heard.

Joe

novaalex
08-12-2005, 07:56 AM
Thanks to all the organizations and people representing hunters!

Randy Clark
08-13-2005, 05:59 PM
alex hey if your headed up here let me know i may not know where the ducks are up here cause i think they are all down near your neck of the woods but you gave up info last year that helped my two sons and i have the best hunting ever if your here we are buying what you are drinking anytime call me im in the book.hard to find a man of his word that will help you kill ducks in his area alex does what he says.

novaalex
08-14-2005, 04:23 PM
Randy I am glad that I was able to help you and it was very gratifying to see the pictures of you and your boys on the web later. I am glad that you joined and now all we have to do is work towards getting more access to more places!