Dog Training, Need some advice

[LockedWings87]

Well, i have a 2 year old lab that is still in the process of becoming a complete dog. He has some trouble finding the far bumpers/ birds. He can see them fall but then his prediction of where it fell is always short. What would be a good drill that i can work him with? I need to start training him hard, because the season is creeping up quick. If anyone out there want's to train together let me know, I could use a few pointers.

Thanks

[Silver Pigeon]

Are you familair with the T-Drill? It is fairly basic but is good one to help extend the dog's distance on marks. It sounds like he has been "conditioned" to think that most retrieves go a certain distance, and therefore is naturally using his internal clock as to when to begin to "hunt"-- this is really common!

Begin by setting up a T- Dill beyond the distance where he begins to "pop". Run him through these piles, by throwing the first bumper to the pile to show him where it is. If he is not ready for Blinds, continue to identify the pile every time you send him. Sart out just beyond is comfort zone, and then gradually move the piles back. If he is collar conditioned then you can force him "back" on a sit whistle when he breaks to hunt, and then a strong back, nick back command.

Also, make sure the dog is lined up directly towards the pile and tell him to "mark" before you throw it. This will become his signal to pay attention. Make sure he is following the bumper with his eyes. And then send him.

Good Luck!

[hunt-chessies]

I'm going to disagree with silver here a little... T drills are for the basics of handleing and if we are just trying to stretch the retrieve the last think i would want is multiple piles and distractions. Besides the fact that there are a few things you should do before t-drills.

First off i'm guessing your throwing hand thrown marks.... if so STOP. You need a helper for training marks. Start at a range you KNOW %110 the dog will nail it. I don't care if it's 20 yards or 100 yards whatever the dogs current range is. Have your helper throw it while making some noise (i like duck calls or "hey pups"). next you move back... all this is done in the shortest grass you can find at first. Keep moving back as the dog keeps doing well. As he has trouble have the "gunner" clap or "quack" and wave their hands to get the dog back to the area. You should NEVER help the dog out, let the gunner do it. Keep your sessions short, don't work the dog to the point where it shuts down on you. Do this over a little bit of time and you should be able to stretch the dog out in no time. Also keep the dog steady at the line so it marks well, give it a second to imprint the mark in its mind before you send him, and if your using a hand to "line" the dog (and that's great if you are) don't move it once you send the dog. You hold it over the dogs head and say your release command and only move it after the dog has run past, if you pull it up or off to the side you can cause the dog to fall off with your hand and ruin the line right outta the blocks.

You anywhere near jax... we have a good group that works together a few times a week. We can help you out anytime you want. remember in dog training you want to make it as stupid simple as you can and build on it. The smallest little wrinkle you don't even think about can be a HUGE road block to a dog.

[Capt HiC]

I agree with Chessi

last year I had that problem with Tank my CBR. It was his first season. I found that he would go out about the distance we trained at. But if it was a crippled or flapped he got with the program fast. I have been increasing his working range with a helper. Can't wait to see the training in the marsh.

Capt. Hiram

[Silver Pigeon]

I think HC's advice is good. You can certainly go either route. I however usually train alone, which takes his option off of the table!

I can tell you though from experience, I have worked a dog through this issue using the T-Drill. HC is right, in that the T-Drill is primarily used as a drill for begining handling (right back, left back, right over etc). However if you start in the middle of the T with your dog at your side you can use it as a marking drill as well. You just have to continually move the piles back farther and farther, and if your dog is not doing blinds throw a bumper to the pile every time you send him. Make sure you tell him to "mark" and he is lined up dead square to the pile before you throw it. Also, make sure he is not creeping forward or breaking before it lands, this will also cause the dog to lose it's focus as to where the bumber/bird landed.

After he has mastered this, I would then bring in a friend in to throw marks away from you. I have found the helper sometimes add's to the distraction/excitement, and is almost another obstacle that the dog has to get used to. Just my two cents, I don't hink you can go wrong with either approach!

[Capt HiC]

ONe word of caution with long retreives . WE have Big Lizards to worry about .
Make sure you can keep your dog under control at a distance.
I would ride shot gun for Tank on long retreives 50 -100 yards.
And I don't want him out there swiming. I try to hunt knee deep max . Evan if I have to go to a less productive area.
I have a friend that lost is dog to a lizard at lake O two season ago.

Keep em safe.

Capt. Hiram

[LockedWings87]

Thanks guys for the input. All i need to do now is work till the season. Hopefully he will improve in distance.

[Gaddy1]

Hunt said it best. Get a bird boy to help you out, you will be surprised how quickly your dog will increase his marks.

[zach raulie]

100% agree with jeremy......for once;) *zing

in addition to what HC said, when stretching out dog to uncharted marking distances; whether its 60yds, 100yds 200 or 400yds consider several approachs/ideas:

1. I believe it is critical to maintain the dogs focus and drive on every retrieve. If dog is great at most retrieves under say 60yds(most hunting situations, great!), but say you want to stretch out to 100yds+++. Have helper stand 80yds out and throw bumper/mark. Send dog. If dog starts to lose drive/speed/focus or its line have helper throw another to pick up dogs pace/momentum etc...If momentum/line/drive are good then back up to 100yds.....and so on.... It will not hurt to toss a bumper every 20-30yds pending the distance to keep dog driving hard and long to the bumper. In this example I'm not teaching the dog to mark really, I'm teaching the dog to run out past the normal "60yds" or whatever it may be. This is how I build a young dog from 50-60yds marks to 100-200-300-400yd marks. You have to start somewhere and build the distance into the mark. General obedience is a must as well and I assume that is complete.

2. Now if dog is making it out to the desired distance 100yd mark or 200yd mark, yet not finding the bird........."baiting" the area.....throw out 4-5 bumpers in the 'area of fall,' maybe 10-15yds apart....prior to the actual throw or mark. THEN, have a helper throw a mark into that area. if dog is a little off he should find at least one of the bumpers. This helps more if the dog is getting to the area of fall but not finding the bird/bumper.

Helper/B-boy is there for a reason so that if dog gets confused or starts to hunt another area he can assist with a little "hey hey or hup hup" to get pup back to the area of fall.

T-drill(s) are the foundations for blind retrieves, for lining and handling.

zr

[hunt-chessies]

good points zack.... i didn't think to mention salting the area with extra's but that's a great way to teach young dogs also a great way to add cover to your marks once you get the distance you want. Bait the cover so they get into it and then quickly find something making them want to hit the cover hard next time also.


One thing i will say is always train well in access of what you would think you need. If there is no way in your wildest dreams you could ever dream sending a dog longer than a 100 YD water mark, then teach and train for everything under the sun out to 200 YD's..... your saying why would i care for a 200 YD marking dog???? That way your dog will never ever ever see something in a hunting situation it hasn't already seen in a controled training enviroment.

[zach raulie]

preach on brotha!

let me know how you do this weekend...

[bandit1]

This is good stuff. We need a Dog training sub-forum.

[Randy Clark]

This is good stuff. We need a Dog training sub-forum.

2nd that idea if these guys would contribute too it

[Randy Clark]

ONe word of caution with long retreives . WE have Big Lizards to worry about .
Make sure you can keep your dog under control at a distance.
I would ride shot gun for Tank on long retreives 50 -100 yards.
And I don't want him out there swiming. I try to hunt knee deep max . Evan if I have to go to a less productive area.
I have a friend that lost is dog to a lizard at lake O two season ago.

Keep em safe.

Capt. Hiram

i have to agree with this remember how big the lizards were in gator threads they all havent been caught

[Silver Pigeon]

There are always two ways to skin a cat. As I said I am just speaking from experience with this issue. However, all of the advice I have read is very good, and will certainly address the problem.

[hunt-chessies]

I think that's a great idea.... i would love to see a Gun dog sub-forum. I help run one on DHC and would deffinatly contribute to one here. I think we got some hidden talent on here and could really help each other out.


Who do we have to beat up to make it happen??

[swilli1054]

I think that's a great idea.... i would love to see a Gun dog sub-forum. I help run one on DHC and would deffinatly contribute to one here. I think we got some hidden talent on here and could really help each other out.


Who do we have to beat up to make it happen??


Done..located on the public forum.

[Silver Pigeon]

Well done-- I think that will be a good addition to the boards!

[zach raulie]

Might be a good idea to take this question/thread from LockedWings87 and move it to that forum to get things started?

zr

[Reddfin]

Great Advice and a great idea to add a Gun Dog forum. Hope it takes off. Seems like there is quite a bit of hidden talent out there.

If you cant get a helper invvest in a couple used launchers with remotes. You can always sell it down the road. I have alos used a hand held launcher that throws out to 100yds with a little primer charge. Got it off Ebay 15 years ago and it still works great. Also associates a bang with a duck falling from the sky.

Not totally related to your issue but one last tip is live birds. You want to see a dog really get motivated? invest in some live ducks. Training with live birds can really increase your dogs overall drive and motivation and get him amped up. Plus he wont be surprised when he gets the bird and its moving and he gets a mouth full of feathers:toothy10:


Tony

[Duckaholic Doug]

Anyone wanting to train in the Tampa/West Central Area? I have a friend in Palm Harbor with a large lot we can work with. I am looking for other people that want to run training drills.